Soviet VDV To&E Mid 1980s?

[carlos marighela]

T-64s were maufactured in Kharkiv. That's quite some distance from say Schwerin or Stendal, so I doubt the story about proximity to manufacture is true.

T-64s were predominant in the GSFG because, until the arrival of the T-80, they respresented the bleeding edge of Soviet tank design. They were the most potent tank in the Soviet arsenal, so they were assigned to the area of greatest threat. By the 1980s they were also quite a mature bit of kit, the earliest versions having been placed into service in the late 1960s.

T-80s have turned up in a number of spots post Cold War. Cyprus bought some and South Korea got about a battalion's worth as a part payment on monies owed by Russia.

[Rick]

I did mention it was rumour, didn't I? I did say it might not be true, didn't I? It is an amusing note nonetheless.
Do you have a date on those T-80 sales and which version (just as a matter of interest more than anything) - the Ukraine T-80UD used western electronics and upgrades to the refurbished T-80's they had and were among the first exports of T-80's outside of the Russian sphere of influence (1991 I think, although the final batch were delivered a few years later). It would be interesting, in an academic sort of way, if the transfers you mention were before '91.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Do not forget the T-80s bought by Her Majesty's  Government  during the Soviet withdrawal from Germany.

[Rick]

Do not forget the T-80s bought by Her Majesty's  Government  during the Soviet withdrawal from Germany.

I had no idea. But, upon further research, it was 1992 (not disclosed until 1994), 'several' T-80U's bought in secret through a 3rd party so as not to arouse Russia's suspicion. Aha - glasnost and perestroika DOES only work one way! 

[carlos marighela]

I did mention it was rumour, didn't I? I did say it might not be true, didn't I? It is an amusing note nonetheless.
Do you have a date on those T-80 sales and which version (just as a matter of interest more than anything) - the Ukraine T-80UD used western electronics and upgrades to the refurbished T-80's they had and were among the first exports of T-80's outside of the Russian sphere of influence (1991 I think, although the final batch were delivered a few years later). It would be interesting, in an academic sort of way, if the transfers you mention were before '91.

No, they were all post '91. Part of the peace dividend, if you like. Apparently Cyprus got its first batch of T-80 Us and UKs in 199 6 and 1997 and another batch sometime in the mid 2000s.  Not their first Soviet tank either, they had a battalion's worth of T-34s in the 1960s-80s and those saw service during the Turkish invasion, which makes for cool gaming potential . Turkish M47 vs T-34. The Cypriots also purchased BMP-3s around the time of the first T-80 purchase. Russia actually tried to flog a batch to Greece but there were better deals around. Greece of course ended up with  large chunk of the ex-NVA, ex Bundeswehr reconditioned BMP-1s.

South Korea received its T-80 Us around the same time as the Cypriots (1996/97). Part exchange for Russia's trade deficit with South Korea. Apparently, they were/are mostly for OPFOR training.

[Rick]

I was in error there for the date with the Ukraine T-80's as well, 1993-4+ I think but the pattern fits of countries selling the T-80 variants off in the mid-late 90's. Sweden also considered the T-80 but, like Greece, chose a western tank. Which kind of comes back to the T-64, which was developed into the T-80 apparently without correcting the maintenance issues; one of the sticking points after the T-80's were offered for export is that the spares and ammunition all had to be imported and I can imagine the same of the T-64.
It was a good tank though - even after it was replaced in tank battalions by the T-72 mods and the T-80 mods it was still used in the heavy company of the GSFG divisional recce battalions, so still a fairly effective tank throughout the 80's.

[AKULA]

i've got a solitary ASU in my VDV force... its a Butlers model... if you want to have a look at the photo before buying one you can see it on the following link... along with lots of VDV of course

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=130954.240

 

[Rick]

i've got a solitary ASU in my VDV force... its a Butlers model... if you want to have a look at the photo before buying one you can see it on the following link... along with lots of VDV of course

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=130954.240

 

Butlers plastic models have improved in even the few years since 2021 - plus offering resin prints at a higher quality is a good option; I've bought several BPM plastic models over a few years and the striations have got less noticeable.

[carlos marighela]

There's no need to go the On the Buses route anymore. There are more options these days, cheaper and better than Butlers, whose usual price is generally as if not more expensive than most, even without the considerable surcharge for printing in resin. Obviosuly,

BobMacK 3D produced the files for an ASU-85 along with their Cold War collection and there's a number of folk producing models from them. Worse comes to worst,you can buy the STL file and find someone local to print it for you. They do the iterations of the BMD too.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

BobMacK 3D produced the files for an ASU-85 along with their Cold War collection and there's a number of folk producing models from them. Worse comes to worst,you can buy the STL file and find someone local to print it for you. They do the iterations of the BMD too.

Interestingly they do not do 1/50 scale over the virtual counter, it might be available for special order.
I think they were at Salute, they were bemused by my asking what scale they were (28mm was the original answer).

[Rick]

There's no need to go the On the Buses route anymore. There are more options these days, cheaper and better than Butlers, whose usual price is generally as if not more expensive than most, even without the considerable surcharge for printing in resin. Obviosuly,

BobMacK 3D produced the files for an ASU-85 along with their Cold War collection and there's a number of folk producing models from them. Worse comes to worst,you can buy the STL file and find someone local to print it for you. They do the iterations of the BMD too.

All true. I've bought cheaper prints from other sources - some on Ebay, some through other online sites. I still, however, go back to buying from BPM - the quality and consistency is something I quite like in a miniature manufacturer, rather than something that is 'more or less' of the right size, hasn't been cured properly and where I have to get other parts to finish it off.
You can be as nasty and condescending as you like, Carlos, but I'll buy from the companies I want to buy from and I'll share my opinion if I so choose. End of.

[carlos marighela]

Nobody is suggesting otherwise. Your dosh, your choices. Merely putting other options out there.

[Ursus Maior]

You do know how that 'duel' will go, don't you? If the ASU85 fires first, the shots'll likely bounce off, then when the Kanonenjagdpanzer fires, it'll gut the ASU85 lengthwise and knock out the one behind as a bonus! 

I love the Kanonenjagdpanzer a lot, but arguing that it can withstand the D-70 85 mm gun of the ASU-85 is a bit of a stretch. Its armor was 50 mm from the front and the D-70 could easily penetrate that. None of the tank-destroyers had advanced optics, so they'd all hunker down behind cover an wait for the other to show up at close range. The Kanonenjagdpanzer has the benefit of being vastyl more agile (bigger power pack, higher maximum speed) though. So it would likely outmaneuver the ASU-85 in a surprise engagement.

[cuprum]

Ultimately, the main advantage of the ASU-85 is its airborne capability. It may be weak, but it is definitely better than nothing when it comes to supporting airborne forces fighting far behind enemy lines.

[Rick]

Ultimately, the main advantage of the ASU-85 is its airborne capability. It may be weak, but it is definitely better than nothing when it comes to supporting airborne forces fighting far behind enemy lines.

The BRDM2 atgm vehicle is airportable - perhaps more so than the ASU 85, the Nona is airportable as well. My point wasn't that 'the ASU is 'better than nothing', it was that there are better choices available in the time period. The BRDM2 is, arguably, the better (longer ranged) ambush hunter and the Nona can provide local artillery support. The ASU 85 got superseded - it happens all the time, you just adapt your tactics for the newer equipment.