LOL Games Workshop is bonkers

[Dr. The Viking]

Then don't buy GW miniatures...? 

While LAF has definitely expanded the horizons of my miniature hobby "stuff", if it wasn't for GW a lot of people wouldn't be in the hobby.

Does anyone else offer plastic minotaurs out there? No. The potential for converting (or "correcting" as some would put it) is also there... which no one seems to have pointed out. As well as not even using them for minotaurs at all... I see a lot of potential here.

I get the criticism, and yes some interesting miniatures as alternatives... but it is the cynicism that dissapoints me.

Anyway, carry on.

Then this thread will no doubt dissappoint you even more! 

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=14281.0

[meninobesta]

Maybe if GW just once decided to read threads like this and realised that the figure-buying public actually know what they are talking about, they might not have had such a rocky time as they have recently.

Actually, I think they do... but also I think that they have their own agenda and it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't include internet forae feedback.

I've read once a thread from Gary Morley (former GW sculptor) in the warseer forum (if I'm not mistaken), where he wrote that he browsed the internet for overall opinion about his sculpts and also that their management are the ones that in the end make the decision about the released minis... Probably it won't happen with everyone of them ... but they are human after all....

[P_Clapham]

There's the pre-painted Reaper minotaur which doesn't look half bad.  As well as the D&D prepainted miniatures, got to be at least half a dozen there.  That's not even going into the figures from Mageknight.  With several quite nice minotar sculpts.

In terms of Ogres, Trolls and Minotaurs for Warhammer, I've stuck to Reaper miniatures.  The figures are cheaper, less cartoony.

No, they offer metal versions for less money...............

[Doc Twilight]

Actually, I learned something very interesting about GW customer service a long time ago, partly during a fiasco in which I was supposed to be writing some Roman supplements for WAB, partly during an earlier incident in which an offer to write for 40k ended up being downgraded to a "retail management position with creative input"....

Well, I learned many interesting things, but the thing most relevant here may seem totally opposite what you might think, but I assure you that it is -entirely- within keeping with GW's current leadership.

Let's use a for instance. Let's assume that GW sees something on a forum, or in a message board, or in a petition (for example, in the futile attempt to get them to produce actual Pre-Heresy Miniatures), endorsed by several gamers.

The first logical step, for most companies (including my own) would be to consider the situation and weigh its merits. Even if the company in question decided -not- to act on the recommendations/requests/outright demands of its customer base, it would have made the decision at least taking those opinions into account.

"We have decided to produce Pre-Heresy miniatures due to demand, and because of A, B, and C."
OR
"We have considered your suggestions, and while we are grateful for them, we just don't think Pre-Heresy era miniatures are practical for us at the moment, because of A,B, and C."

Alternatively, it might choose (as some companies do) to simply ignore the feedback. Perhaps be grateful, but ignore it.

"Thanks for the suggestions, guys. We might do them in the future but at the moment we have no plans to produce Pre-Heresy Miniatures. In the meanwhile, consider A, B, C."


Not the case with GW. Instead, GW has a very interesting spin on this. When the "public" clamours for something, that actually makes it less likely that GW will then pursue that option, at least in the immediate future. "Doc," you're saying, "you're nuts/ill informed/simply making this up". Alas, this is not the case. For whatever reason, GW leadership seems to think that something demanded by a radical and vocal group of gamers is probably being requested by a minority, or by a group that has no real interest in seeing the "GW Hobby" blossom, as much as seeing its own demands met. GW views any feedback from folks other than the inner circle to be "ill informed" at best, "suspect, at worst."

"Let's do Pre-Heresy Miniatures. The books seem to be selling well."
"Good idea. Let's plan on doing them in the next four years."
"Fair enough. I'll get the 3d guys to start... wait a minute, what's this?"
"A petition from GW players, several thousand. They are requesting Pre-Heresy miniatures."
"Oh, well then, forget it. We'll put it on the back burner and hope they move on to something else."

So, for example, when the Pre-Heresy petitions being circulated over several Internet forums were delivered to GW HQ, the official word was "thanks for the input". However, the unofficial word was as follows:

- Core demographic group targeted by GW does not want Pre-Heresy, nor does it understand Pre-Heresy
- As a result, the chance of Pre-Heresy miniatures being released is very, very low.

One friend with GW told me, "The odds of this happening were 50/50. Now that this petition is in, they're more like 70/30 against."

I know, it's totally nuts, and I don't pretend to understand then logic behind it, but this is honest to truth what I was told again, and again, and again. If the public wants it, GW doesn't. Conversely, if the public isn't too keen on the idea, or even notably opposed to the idea, then HQ says "hey, let's give this some serious thought."

I suspect, though I have absolutely NO PROOF of this particular theory, that GW believes that its core demographic (described by GW management to me as "The mommy, buy it for me" demographic) has no interest in the kind of game it ran with Rogue Trader through Second Edition, or with Fantasy, with the earlier editions (not quite as dumbed down as 40k in recent years, to be fair, but getting there). Nor does that demographic particularly care about/have interest in "specialty games" like Epic, Bloodbowl, etc.

-Doc

[Hauptgefreiter]

Doc, this is a sad statement. But it makes a little clearer why we end up with endless new versions of the same stuff instead of bringing out something new. I suspected a more financial background after reading some posts about it (Elves / Chaos Warriors / Space Marines sell, so focus on that, Dark Eldar, Tau,... whatever else is no chartbreaker so shift the priority to the top sellers or let them die out completely) and never guessed that they take a "Yes I want" for "This guy doesn't really understand what he wants".
This makes me curious how the company will look like in a few more years...

[warhammergrimace]

The attitude of GW never surprises me. I once saw an internal video interview, (my wife worked at the production company that filmed it). One of the senior management was talking about the period in the late ninties when they decided that they wanted to "Sack the Veteran gamers from the hobby", because they were becoming a nuisance.

I suspect that same tactic is currently being pushed out again.

[Silent Invader]

I get the criticism, and yes some interesting miniatures as alternatives... but it is the cynicism that dissapoints me.

I suspect that the average LAFer is quite a bit older than GW's target market and as one ages one does tend to accumulate a fair whack of cynicism / wisdom.    

[YPU]

An interesting side track:

On the other hand privateer press fans always say that “their guys” listen to them, how do you guys feel about that?

[Doc Twilight]

Doc, this is a sad statement. But it makes a little clearer why we end up with endless new versions of the same stuff instead of bringing out something new. I suspected a more financial background after reading some posts about it (Elves / Chaos Warriors / Space Marines sell, so focus on that, Dark Eldar, Tau,... whatever else is no chartbreaker so shift the priority to the top sellers or let them die out completely) and never guessed that they take a "Yes I want" for "This guy doesn't really understand what he wants".
This makes me curious how the company will look like in a few more years...

I don't doubt that the GW decisions are partly predicated on finances, and yet for some reason, they do a variety of things that, in other businesses, would have brought about financial ruin or collapse years ago. How many times have members of this board (myself included) said, "this is the last year for GW"? Wasn't it in 2007 that a Hasbro buyout had been predicted? Or the industry analysts, after the major stockholder dumped six million pounds of shares on the market early in 2008, who said that the company "was probably not long for this world?"

And yet, amazingly, through either cooking the books or dumb luck, they survive. The core of the problem is probably the loyal contingent of fanboys, who, to quote another bulletin board, "would gladly accept GW rules requiring gamer chastity if it meant they got to keep their precious space marines".

WHGrimace -

I was told the same thing in the mid nineties, and then again a few years ago when working with GW Historical, but it's interesting that you saw it on tape!. Certainly, if nothing else, GW policy seems to be designed to alienate veteran gamers as much as possible.

What I do know is that, during my first interview, a marketing guy told me that GW's marketing objective was to "put a copy of our game under every tree at Christmas, and that means that older gamers may be feeling a bit left out. However, there's more money in the younger demographic."

-Doc

[Doomsdave]

That pig-thing reminded me of the Hogzilla hoax we had in Georgia a couple of years ago:


Doc's story is completely believable.  Any company that sells spray paint for $15 dollars really thinks their customers are retarded.  What an insult. 


Oh!  and in honor of the pig:

[commissarmoody]

MMMMM I like me some pig....

[Alxbates]

Man-Bear-Pig!!!

Seriously, I've been considering making a "Man Bear Pig" miniature for Forge of Ice.  Tyson wants to sculpt one!

-Alex

[bc99]

The people who support GW aren't the "mommy buy it types" but the older crowd with disposable income. I mean, is mommy really going to shell out a couple of thousand dollars for a complete army? Maybe bit by bit, piece by piece over a long while. I know people who spend thousands of dollars a YEAR.

Weird, so weird.

[TheMightyFlip]

How will GW look in a few years? How does it look now? No blisters in the store other than new releases, boxes of over priced plastic, reduced paint ranges....

"I want a Creed and Kell"
"Certainly buddy (buddy? you call me Sir, you sniveling red/black/blue shirt) here is our online computer, order here, it will be in the store in a week"
"I need it now..."
"No you need it in a week buddy (ARGH!)"

I reckon in five years..maybe 10, the stores will be fully online, lets see it cope then, GW's biggest advantage is the fact you can walk in the store, get harrased by the salesmen and come out with a product, not so if they dont stock product...

[Doc Twilight]

How will GW look in a few years? How does it look now? No blisters in the store other than new releases, boxes of over priced plastic, reduced paint ranges....

"I want a Creed and Kell"
"Certainly buddy (buddy? you call me Sir, you sniveling red/black/blue shirt) here is our online computer, order here, it will be in the store in a week"
"I need it now..."
"No you need it in a week buddy (ARGH!)"

I reckon in five years..maybe 10, the stores will be fully online, lets see it cope then, GW's biggest advantage is the fact you can walk in the store, get harrased by the salesmen and come out with a product, not so if they dont stock product...

Oddly enough, Flip, it's almost exactly the opposite here in the states. The stores generally don't do well, and all but the biggest locations are being shut down fairly regularly. The hard sell attitude doesn't sit well with many consumers, especially those of us who are familiar with the universe, and don't need the GW company line. There are a few locations that do well, but they seem to be the exception, rather than the rule.

I think one of my most amusing memories has to be with taking my wife to a GW store for the first time. She's a long time wargamer herself, and watching the guy explain the "history of the miniatures hobby" and how Games Workshop "invented miniatures wargaming" while she looked on was pretty damned amusing, if I do say so myself;).

And I agree with you, bc, that there are many who spend thousands of dollars a year, but many  of those include college kids who really don't have the money to spend, and younger types with very generous allowances. Back in Northern Virginia we had a kid who'd come into the local game store with his mother every other week, and she'd basically "buy his affection" by picking up between 800 and 1200 dollars worth of stuff with every visit. I didn't game at the store every day, and I was told that he wasn't the only one who had an arrangement like that.

What's amazing to me is to see these folks who have spent thousands of dollars on the hobby then throw the plastic into a big box, rarely if ever paint it, and just sort of sling it around like it's crumpled up newspaper.

-Doc