VUK testing (with pics)

[Uncle Mike]

Thanx Darth, those look like the right answers. And glad to hear of your misfortunes, Ennui! 

Also, great looking game (as usual) Dolmot!

[ennui]

More VUK questions/comments here!

-No buying skills upon creation of Cult (or with RP at all).  I didn't catch this until today, actually, because I skipped reading over the definition of stats and whatnot that are the same between SA and VUK.  Maybe you can make it more explicit on page 4 that you can't spend RP on skills?  (Also, BP, BP, RP and TCR are 4 different acronyms with very similar meanings that took a while to wrap my head around...)

-Since all it takes is an unharmed magus to gain RP and unharmed cultists to roll for skills, does this also apply to those that ran away or were thrown out of the playing area?  Even for the losing cult?

-Do Rogue Threshold models count as Lurkers or as Threshold?  What special items do they have access to?

-This was something that I couldn't find in SA, either:  Resolve checks are decided on a roll of 1d6, correct?

-The only way for a cult to have a demon in its cult is to summon it, correct?  How about a way for my Heralds of the Yellow Sign cult to summon the King in Yellow, so that I can use this awesome mini? 

-I'm confused about this sentence concerning the Chain Coffin scenario: On a result of 1-4 or 6, the Grave Marker is removed from the table, On a roll of 5 the Marker is left on
the table and must be removed as usual, but may not be searched again.
Is the marker left there or removed?

-My opponent and I didn't realize that we couldn't load up our cult with skills, and neither did we use cult unity tests to run away, ending up in very brutal and deadly games where one side or the other would lose 10-15 points and the other would lose very little.  I'm not sure if our mistakes made a large difference or not, but we found that after 1 or 2 games, the discrepancy between any two cults began to grow rather large rather quick, and when only the winner won a few points of RP, the losing cult would quickly run out of any chance to win aside from Calling the Authorities.

To help ourselves out, we decided that both players would roll 1d6 for RP after every game, but the winner would roll an extra 1d6 (2d6 total for RP) in addition to the chance for each remaining cultist on the board to contribute.  We also threw a bunch of civilians on the board that would give 1 RP to the side that murdered them in cold blood. 

Is it just me that feels that losing cult members to death (nearly a 1 in 3 chance since a roll of 16-25 results in death) can quickly make your cult spiral out of control?  Or should we go back and try with running away and see if that negates our need for the extra 1d6 RP each? 

[Dolmot]

OK, time to post a few rules questions. Let's start by returning to these issues:

The Magus is "unharmed" at the end of the game and qualifies for 1d6 RP if he has:

1) Not been removed from the table due to injury (Major/minor) even if he has had some of his Wounds removed during the game (he is assumed to make a full recovery at the end of the game)
2) Failed a Cult Unity test and left the table/game
3) Run off the table either by failing a Resolve check near his short board edge or left by choice

I assume this means that all voluntarily or involutarily fled models still do generate RP as long as they were not Injured (major/minor), right? And the same condition applies to learning Skills?

-The High Priests start the campaign with 3 spells.  These disappear for good once they're used, right?

Yes.  I was told this rule may be changing so that spells may only be re-equipped through scrolls and tomes but Uncle Mike can confirm this...

So the Spells disappear instantly and permanently after exactly one use (or attempt). Can you currently buy more for 3 RP each in any re-equipment phase?

Some others:

1) How do you attack Inanimate Objects? In Close Combat, do you roll against a score of zero "to hit", cause an automatic Wound with a single die or something else? If a "to hit" roll is involved, can you cause Critical Hits or Misses? When Shooting them, do you need to hit here? I'm under the impression that hitting an immobile object at point-blank range should be fairly easy, but is it?

2) How do various Phobias work if a non-Human Lurker gets one? (for example, Teratophobia)

3) In being Face Down: "-- are removed as a Major Injury if engaged in Close Combat by any enemy model". Does this happen instantly for just being in base-to-base or does it require an event which would trigger a round of Close Combat (Charge Action, start of turn, Frenzy, maybe others)?

4) Can you leave Close Combat, if your opponent(s) are Face Up/Down? The "It's a Draw" rule refers to "being victorious"? What does it mean?

5) The same rule says "Models already in base-to-base need not declare a Charge action to engage in Close Combat." What kind of actions do they declare then, if they're standing?

6) Lightning Fast: I see an exception has been added for Alert and two named weapons, but should it apply to all Ready weapons, such as .30 Machine Gun and possible future additions?

7) In "Steal the Artifacts" scenario, does the sentence "may be searched after game with no penalty" mean that this search does not reduce your RP generation? I can't imagine any other penalty which could apply at this point of the game.

Enough for now, too tired for any more questions...but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have them. 

[D@rth J@ymZ]

OK, 'ere we go...

Generating RP and skills: You are correct.  Running for your life (or living to fight another day) does have its advantages.

Spells: Correct on both points.

Others
1) Move into base to base for CC, free roll to wound.  Shooting point blank still involves 'hitting' the target as the gun may jam (critical miss)or the model may be such a miserable shot that he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!

2) Non-human Lurkers are immune to Psychology based on their lurker type (Beast, Demon, Undead etc.)  They still are affected by Cult Unity Tests though.

3) If a model is Face Down and in Close Combat with an enemy model, on the next Close Combat event (either before the turn or as an action), the model is removed as a major injury (There's no fighting back when you are unconscious!...).

4) You can choose to leave Close Combat if you win the roll to hit, then you may decide to leave combat rather than choosing to 'roll to wound' your opponent.  (A good tactic if your model is a 'shooty' model who was engaged in close combat by your opponent, essentially tying up your gun).  'It's a Draw' refers to the CC results being the same and the combat must continue (neither model may do anything else until the CC is resolved)

5) If models are in base-to-base, they are assumed to be in CC already.  The action would be to fight or engage in a round Close Combat.  This can be useful as it can prevent models with Thunderous Charge from getting their bonus (as they would have to leave combat and Charge back in to recieve their bonus)

6) Lightning Fast removes the Ready requirement from certain weapons like Bolt Action Rifles and Dynamite.

7) Correct.

[D@rth J@ymZ]

@ennui: I'll take a stab at this one...

-Since all it takes is an unharmed magus to gain RP and unharmed cultists to roll for skills, does this also apply to those that ran away or were thrown out of the playing area?  Even for the losing cult?

Unharmed Magus gains 1D6 RP, unarmed cultists gain 1 RP on a 4,5,6 on a 1D6 roll.  This applies to all members who either ran off or were thrown out (ie NOT removed with an injury.) for both winning and losing cults.  Skills are determined from a results of 6 on a 1D6 roll for each cult member who was not removed with an injury (same conditions as Cult Management - gaining RP).  Applies to both winning and losing cults.

-Do Rogue Threshold models count as Lurkers or as Threshold?  What special items do they have access to?
Rogue Threshold Characters and Agents are Lurkers.  Consult the Master Weapons Table, VUK pg 21 for available weapons.  As far as I know, special gear and weapons for Rogue Threshold Characters and Threshold are not available in Kulten.

-This was something that I couldn't find in SA, either:  Resolve checks are decided on a roll of 1d6, correct?
Yes.

-The only way for a cult to have a demon in its cult is to summon it, correct?  How about a way for my Heralds of the Yellow Sign cult to summon the King in Yellow, so that I can use this awesome mini? 
A Demon must be summoned in the scenario "The Summoning!" although rumour has it that there may be other ways...only Uncle Mike and the nefarious powers really know for sure...

-I'm confused about this sentence concerning the Chain Coffin scenario: On a result of 1-4 or 6, the Grave Marker is removed from the table, On a roll of 5 the Marker is left on
the table and must be removed as usual, but may not be searched again.
Is the marker left there or removed?
The grave marker now represents the grave of a Restless Spirit, so it is left in place but cannot be re-searched

-My opponent and I didn't realize that we couldn't load up our cult with skills, and neither did we use cult unity tests to run away, ending up in very brutal and deadly games where one side or the other would lose 10-15 points and the other would lose very little.  I'm not sure if our mistakes made a large difference or not, but we found that after 1 or 2 games, the discrepancy between any two cults began to grow rather large rather quick, and when only the winner won a few points of RP, the losing cult would quickly run out of any chance to win aside from Calling the Authorities.

To help ourselves out, we decided that both players would roll 1d6 for RP after every game, but the winner would roll an extra 1d6 (2d6 total for RP) in addition to the chance for each remaining cultist on the board to contribute.  We also threw a bunch of civilians on the board that would give 1 RP to the side that murdered them in cold blood. 

Is it just me that feels that losing cult members to death (nearly a 1 in 3 chance since a roll of 16-25 results in death) can quickly make your cult spiral out of control?  Or should we go back and try with running away and see if that negates our need for the extra 1d6 RP each? 

  The first few games of VUK are very challenging from a Cult Management perspective as you can rarely generate enough RP to buy back all the cultists that died + lost gear..  Despite this initial set-back, once a handfull of games have been played, it does become easier to generate RP.  That being said, keeping the Magus ALIVE (ie. uninjured) allows for the best odds of generating enough RP.

[LidlessEye]

Actually, any Rogue Threshold Character or Agent may use one Prototype weapon from Shocking Tales #1 at the listed cost.  A Rogue Character with a Tesla Rifle may in fact be the nastiest Magus you can field out of the gate.

[ennui]

Thanks for the response!

  The first few games of VUK are very challenging from a Cult Management perspective as you can rarely generate enough RP to buy back all the cultists that died + lost gear..  Despite this initial set-back, once a handfull of games have been played, it does become easier to generate RP.  That being said, keeping the Magus ALIVE (ie. uninjured) allows for the best odds of generating enough RP.

We tried yesterday, starting from scratch with new cults.  1 cult survived with 1 death (a 1 point cultist) and the other suffered 2 deaths, unfortunately it was including the high priest.  That cult ended up being at about 14 points total TCR versus the other cult's 38.  Even when a bribe was given (the cult's remaining free RP and let the lower TRC cult use the surprise attack scenario),  the game was just completely lopsided and ended up not being much fun for the lower TRC cult player.

I think that there are 2 main reasons that this turned out the way it did.  The first is simply that the player got his high priest killed, plain and simple.  He got poor rolls, and even with an Eldritch Barrier spell in place, a tommy gun ended up doing him in, and he rolled poorly on the major injury chart.  One could probably say that none of this would have happened if he was luckier or kept his high priest further back. 

The other reason is that the high priest ends up taking up half of the RP when building a cult.  15 points is probably too high; a rogue Threshold character is 5 points, has the same stat spread, gets command, 1 free skill and a .45.  The only thing that the high priest gets that's better are spells, since a rogue threshold character can take Speak Languages as its skill.  So that's 10 points you're paying for 3 spells--but when you buy spells normally, they don't add to a list's BP.  And these spells disappear as soon as you use it.  So you're basically losing out on 10 points if you ever take the high priest over a RTC (rogue threshold character).  And if you think about a 15 point RTC would look like (same stat build as high priest, but 10 skills!), the difference is pretty striking.  When we play Strange Aeons, we never have to worry about balance since each game the lurker list is created from scratch, and I think that the high priest is balanced toward that, and that's what's throwing off the balance for VUK.  Maybe if the human cultists had a separate point value for VUK?  Or maybe just not allow rogue threshold models?

Keep in mind, my opponent and I have almost only been using the Arcane Seeker lists, using nothing but human cultists.  We started off with my opponent using a death cult, but his zombies just couldn't get up to my horde of .22 cultists to do any damage, so he gave up pretty quick.  Actually, I've found that 1 point cultist models with .22s, or rather, 7-10 of them, can usually take care of any list pretty easily.  I think the thing for us to do now is to try out other cult lists and see how those fare.  We're both still excited about this game and want to help work some of what we perceive as issues.

[D@rth J@ymZ]

Actually, any Rogue Threshold Character or Agent may use one Prototype weapon from Shocking Tales #1 at the listed cost.  A Rogue Character with a Tesla Rifle may in fact be the nastiest Magus you can field out of the gate.

Good point LidlessEye.  It's good to know that those weapons can be used by a Rogue Threshold Agency.

[ennui]

-Do Rogue Threshold models count as Lurkers or as Threshold?  What special items do they have access to?
Rogue Threshold Characters and Agents are Lurkers.  Consult the Master Weapons Table, VUK pg 21 for available weapons.  As far as I know, special gear and weapons for Rogue Threshold Characters and Threshold are not available in Kulten.

One more question:
Does this mean that rogue threshold characters can neither equip the special threshold items found in the SA book nor the special lurker items in Kulten?  I don't have the supplement, so I don't know what is in there... 

[Dolmot]

Hello. This week we have more of the same old, but also a surprise bonus battle. Enjoy.





(~5 MB of images, if you happen to care about such things.)

[LidlessEye]

One more question:
Does this mean that rogue threshold characters can neither equip the special threshold items found in the SA book nor the special lurker items in Kulten?  I don't have the supplement, so I don't know what is in there... 

Rogues can use any item from the SA Master Weapon List or Shocking Tales #1 Additional Weapons, in addition to any one Threshold Prototype weapon from Shocking Tales #1.  So far as I am aware, they cannot use items from the Extra Gear list, but can equip Special Gear from the Kulten rules.  Rogues are Lurker models, so no rules referring specifically to Threshold apply to them.

I think the core of the issue here, both in terms of rules confusion and the relative weakness of your cult, is that the Rogue Threshold Agent and Character are Lurker profiles provided in Shocking Tales #1, and have different costs, gear and stats than a starter Threshold Character or Agent.  If you want to be more competitive at present, you may unfortunately have to choose a different cult type 

[Ramirez Noname]

Hi Dolmot,

The continuing escapades of the various cults are enthralling. I like the "bonus battle" and I'm looking forward to the next encounters.

Your range of questions and comments help and the responses from Uncle Mike, LidlessEye and others make the whole game really come to life.

Looking forward to receiving my own copy of “Strange Aeons” ... I have a few local location ideas to set some encounters in.

Ramirez

[Dolmot]

Thanks for the comments again. This week's episode may be a triple feature. It got fairly chaotic with two simultaneous VUK battles going on, and a Descent campaign being played in the background. I had even less time for photography and observations than usual, but that doesn't mean we would run out of pics. There are plenty. In fact, I split them in two to keep things manageable.


Part 5a


Part 5b

Phew. I need a time-out.

[einarolafson]

Again a very good work!! And again, your table is fantastic.

[Malebolgia]

Fantastic work all around. And your one-liners are hilarious. Had some good chuckles