(KICKSTARTER) WARZONE - Resurrection

[Keeper Nilbog]

Rules Beta up on facebook (printing away in background as i type). Only 17 sides, so such be short and sweet.

[Prodos]

Beta Rules :
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9SxXmqAnzM-QUlKYjhnWnFsR28/edit?usp=sharing
Beta Cards:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9SxXmqAnzM-blNkQmJ0eGhSZG8/edit?usp=sharing

[Argonor]

I haven't read the rules, but at first glance: Far too many stats.

Gamers move more and more towards simple, fast-flowing games, and I fear many will be put off by a stat-line that resembles something out of EE (I know the former versions had them, too - but as I wrote earlier, I gave up on Ultimate because of complexity).

Time may prove me wrong, but I had hoped for a more simplified take on the system (it may be - I haven't had time to read i detail). 

[Malebolgia]

Read most of the rules and I like them! The only thing I'm not a fan of is the damage system with the dual tables and the way it works. Too much math and too much hassle. You really need to break this down into a simpler system where you instantly see what you need to roll. Or like the old Warzone rules: Armour - Damage = Armour roll needed. You can factor all weird things into the Damage or add simple special rules.

I'm intrigued by the card deck! So a bit of Magic mixed in with Warzone. Interesting! Looking forward to seeing this on the table.

[Nightmask]

Like the rules.
Its "now" small armies with clear rules. Easy enough to add "houserules".
Like the card deck bit like the fog of war from Force on Force.
All in all a good start.

Nightmask

(yes convinced will drop Razide level plus add-ons into the Kickstarter pool)

[Agis]

I haven't read the rules, but at first glance: Far too many stats.

OK, I have read them and I am not excited too. 
Do not get me wrong I want this baby to succeed (I have already pledged on Dark Legion level…). 
A lot of the rules seem to be a bit "old fashioned" and overly complex. Right now I would get the minis and play with another ruleset.
But this is the good thing here – BETA rules, we can give feedback! 

Layout – please remove the page backdrop, only wastes ink, makes the reading more difficult and is not adding anything since it is low res…

Bases measurement – To enforce a certain base on players is IMO a bad move. Just make all measurements from the centre of the base and include a CC-range. You can also declare the facing area. Done – and everyone can base the minis in any way they want.

What is the mini facing adding to the game? The situations were a facing for small models like infantry comes into play are very rare, so just drop the rule.

Cards mechanics – Well IMO too complex. Basically a game within a game. You are IMO opening a box of Pandora here. There are some many open ends too cover with future books/ FAQs…
I also fear that the gaming table is sooner or later cluttered with cards that are distracting from the minis!

Some questions:
How are resource cards looking? You have examples of Strategy, Gear and Tactical Cards, but no Res. Card. The only Res. Card I found are in the Card file, is this the only one? Do they all look alike?
Is flipping like tapping in MtG?
What are the symbols on the cards for?
Is Chess + World = Strategy
Chess =  Tactical
Spanner = Gear? – Can’t be since the only Resource card has the same symbol!
What are the numbers on the cards for? Are this the number of res. points I have to pay to play the card?

How are Morale tests rounded? Up/ Down?

Do I get it right, that a player can activate all of his units in the battle Section? Or is the activation alternating between players?

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Hi there,

I'll do my best to answer those questions, some really good feedback though Agis. I'll pass it on.

Resource cards are blank picture cards, these will be factories or refineries, but they all do the same thing. There is no distinction between types of resource cards. I'd imagine (unconfirmed) there will probably be different illustrations for various factions, there's nothing stopping you having Dark Legion Resources in a Bauhaus army. They all do the same thing, but if you are playing themed, you would probably want the Bauhaus equivalent.

Flipping of cards is a way to make sure everyone knows you are spending a resource card, it is essentially like tapping, but Prodos Games are avoiding the terminology. Literally turn the card face down or upside-down to say it has been spent.

Symbols on the Cards help pick these out. The spanner shouldn't be on the resource card AFAIK. You got them right again, AFAIK.

Everything works on basic maths principle, so I would imagine any (x).5 results for morale are rolled up (i.e. 6.5 = 7). This will be confirmed.

Activation is ALTERNATING. It is a you go, I go principle. I activate an entire Squad, one model at a time, then you do that with yours until all the units have been used.


Again, cheers for the honest, but constructive feedback.


I'm pleased with the positivity that is chiming through. Thanks for your faith!

[Agis]

Thanks for the answers, I posted a similar mail on Dakka and Prodos also chimed in.

I will try to find the time to actually play some games with this rules, only then I can give any real feedback.
And of course as with all things a lot is just personal tatse.
For example, I really DISLIKE the round lipped 3cm bases of Warmachine, so seeing these bases on Warzone minis is not to my liking. Same goes for cards and markers on the table. etc etc.

But hopefully the majority will like the new rules and Warzone gets really resurrected.
And I can always play with the new minis using my own system…
 

[rob_the_robgoblin]

No problem, it's useful feedback! Not so angry like some other folks! 

[Elbows]

I glanced through them.  Disclaimer: I won't be buying/playing it...no interest in this style game.  To me it just looks like a slightly different Warhammer-esque game.  I suppose it's not that easy to create a wildly different gaming system for what we do.

I agree there are a ton of stats for what amounts to small companies of infantry/machines fighting.  The only thing that struck me as 100% "do not like" was the inverted use of the D20.  While I know someone could easily get used to it, I've never EVER liked having to roll under, than over.  It bugs me when a bonus becomes "-2 to your result".  Just seems weird.  In line with almost every other game in existence, I think 10+, 12+ etc. would have been a better choice.  It seems that the choice was almost arbitrary just to try to be different.  Not a fan.

Looks solid enough as a game.  To a casual gamer though, I doubt they'll see much difference between this and Warhammer/Infinity etc.  I didn't really follow the original Warzone, so I'm not sure what different people this would attract.  Good luck either way.

[Prodos]

I glanced through them.  Disclaimer: I won't be buying/playing it...no interest in this style game.  To me it just looks like a slightly different Warhammer-esque game.  I suppose it's not that easy to create a wildly different gaming system for what we do.

I agree there are a ton of stats for what amounts to small companies of infantry/machines fighting.  The only thing that struck me as 100% "do not like" was the inverted use of the D20.  While I know someone could easily get used to it, I've never EVER liked having to roll under, than over.  It bugs me when a bonus becomes "-2 to your result".  Just seems weird.  In line with almost every other game in existence, I think 10+, 12+ etc. would have been a better choice.  It seems that the choice was almost arbitrary just to try to be different.  Not a fan.

Looks solid enough as a game.  To a casual gamer though, I doubt they'll see much difference between this and Warhammer/Infinity etc.  I didn't really follow the original Warzone, so I'm not sure what different people this would attract.  Good luck either way.

1 thing I can say is that this is significantly different to 40k, and to be fair that that makes it so, namely the cards, is one of the things that a lot of the older version fans are less keen on. Also this is a skirmish game, each mini is important, not a battle game

Thanks for the comments though! Really appreciate it!

[tnjrp]

Alt-activation + model-by-model activation using action points produces a significantly different result from "warhammeresque" even without the card play.

[Agis]

Alt-activation + model-by-model activation using action points produces a significantly different result from "warhammeresque" even without the card play.

Absolutely, if anything this Warzone version is miles apart from 40K!

[Centaur_Seducer]

Oh god, lip bases are the worst kind of bases!

[demi_morgana]

Why is that