Dead Man's Hand vs Fistful of Lead

[Argonor]

I've heard that the two rulesets are very much alike.

Is that right, or not, please?

[greatescapegames]

As far as I know, both use cards for initiative but in a very different way. FoL models take "wounds", in DMH the "wounds" can go up and down. I think in FoL you have a hit roll then a "to wound" roll and I don't think there were many modifiers for cover, moving, etc. DMH is a single roll after applying modifiers. Lots of emphasis in DMH on the special cards that affect the game with cards specific to the gang (Cowboys, Lawmen, etc.). Both are influenced by a movie gaming style.

[BaronVonJ]

Glad somebody else brought this up. I didn't want to sound like jerk. Deadman's Hand is eerily similar to my Fistful of Lead rules I published back in 2001. I actually had people on the FfoL Yahoo group ask if Deadman's Hand was a supplement to Fistful of Lead.
- Card driven
- Special cards granting abilities
- Simplified weapon charts
- Wounds can go up and down with use of cards
- Ammo tracking is nil right down to the only out of ammo by rolling a "1".
DMH has 3 moves on activation instead of 2. Card assignment is slightly different. There is use of a d20 instead of d10. DMH is has much more grit and breaks games up into acts.
Mine's a helluva lot cheaper. I guess I should be flattered?
-J

[magokiron]

I don't have DMH rulebook, but I did bought the FoL pdf years ago, and FoL rules are just GREAT.

And, this "similarity" issue has appeared in other forums already.

We have to be aware that there's only a certain amount of ways we can throw dice, count successes or "hits", measure ranges or movement, etc. in a wargame, but when 2, 3, 4 and more things in a rulebook are quite similar to a previously published work, I think this "eerie similarity" deserves our attention as a gaming community.

Best wishes.

[Za Zjurman]

but I did bought the FoL pdf years ago, and FoL rules are just GREAT.

+1

[Treebeard]

I purchased FoL a few weeks ago only and it is a great set of rules : Simple and Efficient. I have played it with two of my sons (12 and 8 ) and now they are able to play by themselves with only a translated summary sheet.

I don't like the commercial concept of Dead Man's Hand where you have to purchased mini to get posses cards.

[Ray Earle]

You don't need to buy the figures to play the game. Although I have because they're really nice. 

All the cards and rules you need are included in with the rulebook.

[Treebeard]

Ok probably a misunderstanding.

I'm confused by : "Boxed gang of Lawmen including special rules card and bases"

These special rules cards are include in the basic deck that comes with the rules ?

[Elbows]

This is something I'm always a bit..wary of.

I like to create rule sets...but I haven't played a lot of what's out there.  I'm always curious if I've made a copy of something without being aware of it.  Heck, 13 years ago I made a WW1 flying game using 1/72nd scale models and a system of scribbling down moves, revealing them, and then shooting if you were in LOS/range etc.  Then Wings of War showed up...and I thought "damn, why didn't I try to publish mine!".

Even two people in completely different places can come up with the same stuff.  I don't have FOL nor DMH but I'm curious to see how close they are.  From what I can tell neither are like SnS...but then I've heard some people say that Deadlands uses a similar dice system to SnS.  They'd have to be pretty darn similar before I get really concerned.  Does anyone own both?

[Ray Earle]

I don't think the gang specific cards are included in the deck that comes with the rulebook. But all the rules for the gangs including the 'special' rules are in the book.

So as long as you are capable of referencing the page while playing or scribbling them down on a piece of paper to remind you it's not an issue. 

[BaronVonJ]

Gents,
I got a PM from Stuart, the author of DMH. Seems like a decent, stand up guy. If he says there's no connection bewtween the two rule sets, that's good enough for me.
Fistful of Lead was written because a guy running a Wild West game at a con was a jerk to me 20 years ago. I didn't write them to make money, that's why they're so cheap.
DMH has more "meat" if you will. FfoL was written with tons of players (and young ones, too) in mind.
People can buy what they want, and decide what's best for them.
-J

[Furt]

Gents,
I got a PM from Stuart, the author of DMH. Seems like a decent, stand up guy. If he says there's no connection bewtween the two rule sets, that's good enough for me.
Fistful of Lead was written because a guy running a Wild West game at a con was a jerk to me 20 years ago. I didn't write them to make money, that's why they're so cheap.
DMH has more "meat" if you will. FfoL was written with tons of players (and young ones, too) in mind.
People can buy what they want, and decide what's best for them.
-J

Have no real interest in Wild West rules really - but that's very decent of both involved parties. Nice work gentlemen.

[greatescapegames]

I don't think the gang specific cards are included in the deck that comes with the rulebook. But all the rules for the gangs including the 'special' rules are in the book.

So as long as you are capable of referencing the page while playing or scribbling them down on a piece of paper to remind you it's not an issue. 

Yup, that's spot on Ray.
And thanks to Jaye for a very reasonable reply.

Stuart

[Argonor]

So, similar, but not identical.

Thanks for the clarification.

[greatescapegames]

No, Argonor, similar in design objective, - simple mechanics, cinematic - that's all. Some things - cards and out of ammo results that are used in other systems, such as TRWNN, LoTOW, FfoL and more, are related but what would any Old West game be without playing cards and out of ammo results!