(KICKSTARTER) Road Kill Ultimate Car Combat

[CptJake]

Your comments are on track, and I seem to be one of the ones berated.  Guess I am not a True Backer.   

I was gonna comment to the guy who pledged Reward Level 9 that pledging that level is in fact impossible.   He can pay that much for reward level 4, but no higher reward levels are open yet, and won't be for a few 10s of thousands of dollars in pledges.   

 

[Lord GreyWolf]

and he was so proud to be at that pledge level and it was all due to watching an interview.

$300CAD into a game that might get to $39k and be funded, then what does he do? as his pledge level isn't unlocked until they reach $79k. Does he bite the bullet and lower his pledge down to one that IS unlocked thus reducing the amount that has been pledge and could then potentially drop them lower to what they need to be funded. Or does he then spend $200CAD [as he can only pledge at the $100CAD/Reward #4 if they reach $39k] on a small amount of accessories as most aren't unlocked until they get to $79k...

Also I see he rewards those who make good comments, but brands us who ask the questions about funding, pricing, set up etc as being rude and destroying TIG dreams....

I am still in for the PDF rules be interesting to see if I can convert it to Hot Wheels scale.
I did note the creator making a comment:

If you'd rather glue-gun some junk on a hotwheel, well yes...that would save you some money, but you get what you pay for.

I spent 2 hours with my two kids discussing the merits of different weapons as we glued junk to the many Hot wheels cars we had and then deciding the best paint scheme I think I got my moneys worth from that...

LGW

[CptJake]

Yeah, getting kids involved makes it worth a LOT more than a couple hot wheels and some left over bits, and you end up with truly unique creations.   From what you showed of yours, they will be better than the teeny models that come with this game.   Asking the typical kid to work on something as tiny as those 10mm cars and risk them having trouble (which decreases the FUN) and being limited to what they can do, and potentially messing up that $10 mini seems silly.   

Your way is a lot better, and I think can easily look as good.   Heck, the larger scale alone ends up looking a lot better on the table, and is a LOT more kid friendly.

[Too Bo Coo]

I'm also being pilloried on the site for not giving them my money...

I think it would be very silly to take to heart the comments of strangers concerning a board game.  I'm absolutly nonplussed about it, I figure we cant please everyone.  And if it means I need to fork over a hundred bucks to keep KS trolls at bay, I'll take the heat

I think part of the issue is that people dont want to do the math and figure out the deal.  And this was a bad deal....

Yes, I also noted the comment about 'glueing junk to matchbox', but if you go back and listen to his pitch, all he did was kitbash those cars himself.  Actually, it was that comment that solidified my decision....

[Lord GreyWolf]

I made my final "large" statement on the comment section. This was bought on by the comment from the creator directed at me...

It is a very long wall of text so read it if you feel like it.

Not sure how this game can be pushed out there. Even with the Freebie stuff for nominating a friend isn't doing it and its the first one I have seen on kickstarter.

its hard to get friends to join with no box set, to even pledge for the box set and postage its going to cost me over $214NZD now that is A LOT for a board game.....

I'll keep on watching and talking about it to friends see what happens...

LGW

[Lord GreyWolf]

@Scurv
if he had done it like you said he might have been funded by now.

Or if he had made a scale like 15mm the vehicles could have been used with a lot more types of games or the amount of players that have 15mm terrain [like me] could have used that with his game.

Other option is let the backer decide the scale they wanted to play.
for those who wanted to use Hot Wheels then he could have done weapon packs for them to buy for each type of vehicle.
or he could have made basic cars in 10mm, 15mm and 20mm again each type of backer is happy. [of course more money spent to make them but more range of backers to get behind it as well]

but 10mm is such an obscure scale that only a few who do it. Pendraken comes to mind and they are the leading 10mm fantasy maker... DropZone Commander uses 10mm but that has everything you need to play that game even pricey price tags as well.

over all I am going to see how the rules stack up and play will proxy with my Hot Wheels cars and see if it can work. Otherwise I will spend time making a kids friendly version of Car Wars with out all of the crap and options and make it K.I.S.S!!!!!!

LGW

[Elbows]

I have never...ever understood the violent attitudes people get over "why won't you buy my product!?".  That is a sure fire way to fail in business, of any sort.  Particularly when your product appears to be sub-par and overpriced.

Is that not, in fact, the very goal of Kickstarter?  To see if your product gains enough interest and investment for you to bother with it?  If your Kickstarter fails, that's your target audience sending you a huge message.  There are plenty of Kickstarters I've seen mentioned on this forum which simply suck.  As gamers we're not sworn to accept and invest in every game we see simply because it's a game.

This boils down to the simple philosophy: don't ask a question if you don't want the answer.

Producer: "Do you like this product enough to purchase it?"
Consumer: "No."
Producer: "What!? WHY NOT!? YOU'RE A DICK!"
Consumer: "..."

 

[Lord GreyWolf]

@Elbows right on dude

unless this project gets funded or they offer some amazing freakin deal I will stay at my Rules pledge.

and convert it to my badly glue gunned super glued gunned up Hot Wheels...

LGW

[Too Bo Coo]

I made my point on the comments page as well.  I could care less what fan-boy opinions may or may not be.  But it is laughable at the 'very passionate' people for a game that is 1) not complete and 2) more importantly, they have never played.  How could you get passionate over something that really doesnt exist yet.

I remember Andy Chambers saying years and years ago something like, 'Games Workshop is a miniatures company.  We make war rules so you buy our figures, but we sell figures, not games.'

I suspect this guy has the same business model.  Overpriced mini's and the veneer of a game to justify the purchase.  I also have to say, I am less than impressed with the YT reviewers on these types of projects. Tom Vassel seems to be very straight with what he says, but I do wonder if others pump up their enthusiasm for either a kickback in product or  something similar...

Nope, they took my $15.00 for their ruleset and that's the last of my money to this project!  The 'gluing scrap to matchbox cars' comment pissed me off enough that I even thought of taking back the $15.00....

[Lord GreyWolf]

With regards to Tom Vassal don't they have to pay him any way?

I recall watching his Youtube vids and it usually starts off as  "This is a Paid preview/review of _______ by Tom Vassal for Dice Tower...."

if TIG can't fund this game don't think they could fund Dice tower review.

You look at the other Kickstarters out there my latest one was Incursion run by two guys with day jobs and it was insane. The last days, hours and minutes just kept on adding more and more... they are not a big company just two guys with a dream. Thankfully their game has been around since 2009 but still it was metal and not cheap they wanted to change that to plastics and boy did it work...

Then you have Kickstarters like Reaper and Zombicide run by decent sized companies with quite a bit of resources and pulling power who fund with in 15 minutes, and then give us all that "Reaper effect" where we must have X amount of cool stuff for out $ input or ELSE!!!..

I know not all Kickstarters can offer that kind of level but at least they can offer the FULL BOX SET!!!!! ok stepping off soap box......

night guys off to bed got day shift tomorrow 5am start and its now 9:30pm aarrgghhh

Cheers
LGW

[CptJake]

I think I was pretty clear about where I stand in their comments section.   'Hardcore Road Warrior' or not, I actually DO understand business, see some glaring flaws in the campaign and products which I wanted to like because I like the genre.

But at this point I can't even work up the desire to be civil towards the game creator and a few of his fan boys.   Being a 'nice guy' for the sake of being a 'nice guy' just isn't me.

They'll most likely hit funding, but they are not currently on track to hit the level needed to fund the box game, and that is with the Hardcore Road Warriors pledging for reward levels that are not unlocked (and not likely to unlock).   Unlike many projects with a slew of stretch add ons they don't have much to entice current pledgers to greatly increase their pledge levels.   Assumed 'quality' and local sourcing aside, the product IS very much over priced, whether they want to admit it or not.   The local sourcing is a joke anyway.   Adding at most 50k to the Canadian economy in a one shot deal is at best going to give one time temp work to already set up and running casting and printing businesses.  Yes, better than a kick in the groin but if it increases your product cost above what market will bear it is a dumb move.   Frankly the typical gamer is much more apt to be impressed with a good value than with a 'Made Locally' label.  Having said that I think the prices have more to do with anticipated small quantities and a very inflated (for the field) profit margin.  

A $150 box game that has so little in it won't see shelf space for long at local gaming stores because it is not going to move, and the theme is too niche for internet sales to support the game becoming The Next Great Thing.   Assuming his prices are inflated and retailers can get a very reasonable discount they will pass on to customers, this may be a better one to purchase after the project is done.  If his prices are not inflated (yeah right) or he does not offer very deep retailer discounts he is fucked from day one anyway.

Jake (obviously NOT a hardcore road warrior fan boy)

[CptJake]

Wow.  I just looked at the original project which the creator canceled.

He actually raised the prices/decreased what you get for your money in the new project.

That is amazing to me.

 

[Too Bo Coo]

Yup, that was actually the #1 reason I canceled my pledge for more than the rules, I went back and compared after reading this thread.

I still dont see the logic, customer-wise, why this guy is trying to fund half the game....  He's basically selling skeleton rules and his primary objective, very overpriced minis.... But the whole point of KS is to get money to make a game you cannot afford to.  His rationalization for this structure is, "I set pledge levels for what I can afford to make."  Um, but if you raise MORE MONEY you make MORE STUFF, no?!?! 

In plain english, it sounds like either he's really not interested in making a real game and just wants to sell very expensive minis or he's an idiot.  Either way, $15.00 is all I'm good for here.

Did anyone see his expansion schedule?  Assuming it's 1 per year, that's about 6 years of release, on a game he's not set up to be complete in the first phase!  It just all makes no sense...

[YPU]

Seriously you guys should write up a 6 page set of rules (10 with art and diagrams) and sell em for a buck on wargames vault.

There are some seriously creative brains on Lead I think it could be done. 

[Lord GreyWolf]

I'd be keen to try and help out:

* the main things it has to be Kid friendly or at least have a component that is at their level and then can be scaled up for older gamers
* can be used with ANY scale
* you can customize your vehicle how you see fit. [one heavily armoured vehicle or a couple of lightly armour cars that go really fast.]

so who's keen?

LGW