Campaign Pains: Cash Cows & Power Up Problems

[Grey Panda]

This is a difficult one.

We play to have fun. But of the 'fun' of any game whose goal it is to accumulate treasure is to grow richer. The richer we get the more powerful we become. And that's good. We receive our reward for succeeding and that feels right.

But as we all know by now, "With Great Power comes Great Ability to kick the %&*$ out of everyone"

As a Wizard and his warband become stronger the gap between him and his foes become wider and each exploration into Frostgrave can potentially compound the problem.

One solution is to throw more dangers at the more powerful Wizard as he enters Frostgrave. I think this is an excellent scenario tool. But for me at least I don't think its a ideal solution as it just doesn't feel fair that the most powerful Wizard all of a sudden becomes a magnet for natural (and supernatural) disasters.

Giving greater rewards of XP's to the Lesser Wizard also seems an excellent idea but again for me whether I'm the most powerful or the weakest Wizard this just doesn't inspire my competitive nature Almost seems like every solution involves the victor to be punished or enter the battlefield with one hand (or wand) tied behind his back!
 
The problem here is that riches won in the game are solely represented in the accumulation of more powerful forces on the battlefield.

In reality and in history that is simply not the case. Riches equated to titles, property, privileges, popularity at court etc..

Each Wizard or "client" could serve a Patron, similar to the Patronage system in ancient Rome. The Patron would be the protector, sponsor, and benefactor of the Wizard;

The Patron should be some suitable archetype. Perhaps a powerful warmongering monarch, a Religious or Magical Institution. This Patron must receive the treasure collected but rewards the Wizard in turn. The rewards or resources returned to the Wizard could be randomly determined and may not actually reflect the total amount retrieved in their explorations. Moreover the unspent balance accumulates and at certain levels is actually used to express the Wizard's advancement in different categories.

The advancement within these categories are considered the real goal of their experience and riches.

So the Wizard's Patron confers titles, property, privileges, position at court, pleasure, honour, learning, knowledge, or harmony of the cosmos, the glorification and exaltation of their deities, or some greater cause suitable to the back story of the Wizard's school.

I think it might be interesting to devise or develop some detail to these a patronage rewards and how possessing greater wealth, power, or prestige could be represented.

Perhaps really cool magical items could only be conferred by Patrons as rewards for the exploits of the Wizard.

As the protector of their client or Wizard perhaps a warband that has been weakened can be strengthed by the Patron but only at the cost of lowering the prestige or reputation of the Wizard.

Anyway, I think as a campaign tool I'd be interested in developing this further.

[Lawful Evil]

This all sounds promising and echoes some concerns I've had about this type of game since the Necromunda days where you'd have to retire your gang because they became too powerful.
It'd take a cleverer man than I to get it all to work, however.

[Achilles]

Honestly, this is just the nature of experiences systems in ANY game. From D&D to Necromunda there always needs to be a point where you 'ride off into the sunset'. That's the point of a GM/Campaign Manager, Etc., to direct a story to a satisfying end.

If you're playing this as an open campaign, or pick-up-and-play, I doubt there will be a perfect system for managing power creep in a game of random benefits and scaling power. It's effected by too many things outside the control of the rules. How often can a player get in games? How are the dice? Etc. Etc.

I've always been of the school of 'don't sweat it and roll with it. Next Campaign, you might be the runaway gang.'.

That said, clever Campaign organizers will often set time limits for the Campaign to run (it; it runs 8 weeks, then we reset and everyone goes in fresh) to keep people from getting too far ahead or losing interest, or a 'Win' factor like 'First Gang whose rating reaches X will take control of the territory and all the other gang leaders will need to swear fealty to them (Cyrus from 'The Warriors' before, of course, he is killed and the Campaign resets. ).

Just my thoughts, I'm not saying 'not to try' or come up with something that makes you happy, but there's other ways to manage runaway gangs (like the above) without adding or changing rules.

A

[Buff Orpington]

Without writing a completely new game it will not be easy to achieve a balance. Necromunda did try by introducing the Underdog bonus. That could help out regarding warband development. Perhaps the underdog could gain 10 XP per level difference just for taking on a more powerful band. You might want to increase this to 20 points per level if they win and maybe an extra roll on the treasure table to reflect the discounts that traders might offer an up and coming wizard.

[joe5mc]

Generally, I have found that warband imbalance is mostly likely to occur right at the beginning of a campaign. One player who gets a big treasure score in the first game or two, can massively upgrade his troops. If this doesn't happen in the first few games, it doesn't usually become too big of a problem later in a campaign. I might suggest that a campaign might implement a maximum warband cost that slowly increases.

1st Game - maximum spend 500gc
2nd Game - maximum spend 600gc
3rd Game - maximum spend 700gc

And so forth.

[sniperbait]

Our group has only had a couple of games but I can see how cash rather than a few levels could make a huge difference. There are there of us and only 2 levels separate the wizards but the cash at this level has been pretty variable.  One player rolled 400 gc or so a couple of times where as the other got grimouires for spells from opposed schools. He then lost a couple of expensive troops and will struggle to replace them with like for like never mind upgrading.

I think if we were to introduce new players, we would try something like half the level and 1 treasure roll per level. That may if anything be a little generous.

[ragsthetiger]

One player rolled 400 gc or so a couple of times where as the other got grimouires for spells from opposed schools.

You should really be allowed to sell those.  In fact, I don't much see the point of forcing wizards to learn every spell keep every grimoire they encounter -- it seems to go against the basic concept of rival schools, not to mention being an unreasonable restriction on an adventuring wizard.  If you're back in your wizard's tower, that might make sense, but if you're out campaigning in the field, you have to make decisions based on what's best for your warband, and that might well mean selling off something valuable for the sake of keeping the lads in your group competitive, especially when you're strapped for coin.
rags
(edited for accuracy)

[zellak]

Another way to play might be to attempt " Epic Scenarios ".

Playing against a gamesmaster in a more rpg style of scenario.

I have an idea for such a scenario, a castle full of werewolfs ( 40 Confrontation Wolfen ) where all the players work together ( at first    ) to get into the castle then steal the treasure.
Two treasure tokens for each player all counting as 3 rolls on the treasure table.

There will be a special treasure token .
Stormbringer , a +4 sword which has "Soul drinker " ability.
Anyone killed by this weapon is dead and cannot be resurrected, furthermore if in melee combat the wielder rolls a  natural 1 and is killed, he himself falls to Stormbringer, the figure is removed and the special treasure token is placed where he fell.

Epic Scenarios  are the way to go......

[Fencing Frog]

You should really be allowed to sell those.  In fact, I don't much see the point of forcing wizards to learn every spell keep every grimoire they encounter -- it seems to go against the basic concept of rival schools, not to mention being an unreasonable restriction on an adventuring wizard.  If you're back in your wizard's tower, that might make sense, but if you're out campaigning in the field, you have to make decisions based on what's best for your warband, and that might well mean selling off something valuable for the sake of keeping the lads in your group competitive, especially when you're strapped for coin.
rags
(edited for accuracy)

I agree... I have "learnt" a spell I will never case "restore" life my target number is 24, since its an out of game spell I can't even take a shot and then empower it to a successful level. If our Campaign goes to 2017 I might get high enough that I will have "spare" points to lower it to a useful level.

[Drachenklinge]

Dogs of War, the Mortheim-version of Rackham's Confrontation does it nicely, imho.

On a competional level you just got better from game to game. On a campaign level you got more and more rumors. So, the gang collecting the proper amount of rumors was allowed to play the final "get boss-level-last enemy"-mission, since they now know where to look ... and to fight ... and one really should have a very good gang for that!

Whith that mission successfully played, campaign's over. Said and done.