Rules advice

[Sunjester]

Hi Guys,

I'm after advice on a suitable ruleset for 16th/17th Century Eastern Europe. Any thoughts?

[Jeff965]

If it's a large skirmish game you are after then I'd suggest Donnybrook. One of the many factions in the book would suit the Eastern European theatre and a small 4pt game on a 4x4 table would require between 20 and 50 figures a side.

[fred]

For a bigger game Baroque seems to have quite  a following - I have the rules, but haven't played them yet.

[robh]

If you want mass battle games then the "Liber Militum" Tercio rules work really well for the era. The "Kingdoms" expansion has extensive army lists for Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, Hungarian and Croatian forces plus Tartars, Cossacks and Ottoman armies.

Rules are 1 base = 1 unit type with no casualty removal and work with any scale of figures from 6mm up to 28mm. There is a free intro version ("Brevis") available that will give you an idea of how the game plays.

http://elkraken.es/released/en/

[M.P.]

You may try as well By Fire & Sword, which is all about eastern renaissance with rules for the Swedish Deludge, Transylvanian incursion, Polish-Muscovite war and Khmelitsky's Uprising.

[SaltyWendigo]

You may try as well By Fire & Sword, which is all about eastern renaissance with rules for the Swedish Deludge, Transylvanian incursion, Polish-Muscovite war and Khmelitsky's Uprising.

I would second this this, it has great rules that are easy to absorb and fun to play. Also has some of the nicest Rule-books I've laid eyes on, if they are a bit pricey.

[Sunjester]

I would second this this, it has great rules that are easy to absorb and fun to play. Also has some of the nicest Rule-books I've laid eyes on, if they are a bit pricey.

Thanks very much guys.
robh: I'll have a look at those intro rules.

M.P. and Salty Wendigo: I've seen By Fire and Sword, but the price puts me off, I've been caught out too many time by expensive, glossy rules costing that looked nice but were disappointing (which is why I like the Osprey rules, if they are rubbish you haven't waisted too much cash). These are also designed for 15mm figures and I'm using 25/28mm, is that a problem?
What about army size, my Ottomans have about 60 cav and 100 inf, is that enough for a game?

[fastolfrus]

BFaS works with bases of figures. So long as all your figures are consistently based, scale doesn't entirely matter.
There are a few BFaS players in 28mm, but obviously you would need to adjust distances.

At a skirmish level, Turks need lots of cavalry, and any foot are mainly Segban.
The lists represent typical skirmish forces, so vanguard, rearguard, scouting party or detached outpost.
Games are scenario driven.
Lists are not points driven "shopping lists", but pictorial force lists.
You choose a force strength (4, 5, 6, etc) and all black coloured units are in your force. If you add extra points you can modify the force by adding optional grey units (or adding extra bases to some black units).
The player with the weaker total force chooses the scenario from the rule book.

The rule book is big (and heavy), but covers the whole rule set. The Deluge supplement is an optional add-on, but if you get into the game it's an add on that is very good - it adds some new units, and more importantly new scenarios.

[fastolfrus]

Oh, another point, it's possible to have a game with a big difference in points - my last game featured Ottomans (11 points) being attacked by Cossacks (18 points). Cossacks at this period are mostly infantry, but with armoured wagons. So an interesting game given that three quarters of the Turks were Spahis,  and they were defending a couple of hills.

BFaS has a forum which might give you further insight, and there are usually a few lists that you can download free to get some idea of how things look.

There is a rumour on the BFaS forum of a small rule book coming out.

You occasionally get the rule book on ebay or bring & buys, the first edition looks very similar to the second edition, but the second has "Revised edition" written on the cover in a yellow banner.
The first edition is playable, but it does mean you can haggle the price down significantly "because it's out of date"

[fastolfrus]

If you ever get up to Scarborough pop by for a game.

[FierceKitty]

Happy to send you a copy of my Ten More Sons!, on the off-chance you might like them.

[Sunjester]

Happy to send you a copy of my Ten More Sons!, on the off-chance you might like them.

I've sent you a PM.

[Sunjester]

FierceKitty: Rules received, thank you very much. I realised I'd PM'd you via the Pendraken Forum instead of this for some inexplicable reason.

[Codsticker]

I've seen By Fire and Sword, but the price puts me off, I've been caught out too many time by expensive, glossy rules costing that looked nice but were disappointing (which is why I like the Osprey rules, if they are rubbish you haven't waisted too much cash).

Be sure to keep an eye out for Pikeman's Lament when it come out then. Not sure when though; sometime this fall I think.

[Matakakea]

Be sure to keep an eye out for Pikeman's Lament when it come out then. Not sure when though; sometime this fall I think.

I just saw on Dan Mersey's blog that this is due out late January. Sorry, I don't know how to do the link.