The Lead Painters' League - Season Three

[Admiral Benbow]

@ Froggy and Vonkluge: look at this match, it's the perfect example that even group shots without any backdrops or scenery will win if enough voters like them: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=10668.0 

[Mancha]

My feeling is that the votes should be blind, by which I mean, names of painters shouldn't be provided.  Does anyone else think it's possible that some of us vote for painters as opposed to teams? 

[Hammers]

Does anyone else think it's possible that some of us vote for painters as opposed to teams? 

No, not at all.

[Admiral Benbow]

Does anyone else think it's possible that some of us vote for painters as opposed to teams? 

No, never. And I really hope that everybody here, participants and voters, reminds himself that the Lead Painter's League is primarily for having FUN ..., in painting, voting for and looking at so many marvelous painted miniatures!
 

[Jase]

@ Froggy and Vonkluge: look at this match, it's the perfect example that even group shots without any backdrops or scenery will win if enough voters like them: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=10668.0 

Gee, thanks! 

Personally, I look for the paintjobs first and the background secondly. However, a dramatic backdrop can enhance the atmosphere greatly and as such it often adds a lot to the painted miniatures.

[Hammers]

And I really hope that everybody here, participants and voters, reminds himself that the Lead Painter's League is primarily for having FUN ..., in painting, voting for and looking at so many marvelous painted miniatures!
 

Right. There have been a few posts which made me wonder whether there was a substantial cash price this year that I was not aware of.

[Captain Blood]

Right. There have been a few posts which made me wonder whether there was a substantial cash price this year that I was not aware of.

Well I can tell you there wasn't last year 

Seriously though, I'm a competitive sort, so I really don't mind other people who also take it seriously and have a legitimate view about what might be done differently.

But as Admiral B points out, it is only for fun; we've established a typically civilised LAF way of doing things which is not perhaps quite how it's done in other places, but which seems to suit this forum pretty well.
There will be no changes to the rules - certainly not while the season is running anyway. So best not to ask
Try to just enjoy 

[meninobesta]

thank you all! for this wonderful start!

you are the only persons in the world that make mondays sound positive! 

[Froggy the Great]

And let me make it perfectly clear that I was not trying to slight my opponent nor start a fight.  Now I know better how to compose my shots.

[Vonkluge]

All valid comments gents!   but mine were just in response to "Froggy's" thoughts  they too are valid overall. No, not everyone judges that way but quite a few do. I have seen painting contest all over the land for over 25 years, entered many, won some, judged several, and I know for a fact that given an "open" judging (public so to speak as we have here, sort of) votes will tend to go to the most impressive display, The "current" popular "theme" or figure line, ect. If you have a set of "pro" judges governed by a given set of rules who know what to look for things will go quite different, often against the popular "vote". Painting contest are only really valid when you are "holding" each figure and judging under the same conditions. I was in a "Historicon" painting contest once where do to bad lighting they attempted to judge with flashlights!  

Even then it is subjective, think of a beauty contest at ?Hooters? and one held at ?Harvard? college, you will get 2 very beautiful girls, but two very different types of beauty! (for our European friends that may not know what "Hooter's" is, let?s just say your beer is served by females with very large assets .) This line of thought is validated by the common knowledge that many "Pro" painters carefully select there subject matter to paint so to appeal to the type of people judging and conditions of that paticular contest. IE: last year there were 10 different "TigerII tanks entered, this year I better do something different! Or the movie "Glory" just came out and American civil war is very popular!

I stand by my comment on backgrounds though, they will get more and more high tech and we will spend more and more time on them. This has the unfortunate effect of limiting competition from people who can?t do the background. I can, no problem, but others can?t. I can use photo shop and get laser effects, smoke, sharpen and highlight, blur and smooth a bit of bad paint... where does it stop?

This "fun" contest is just for fun and can really only be judged as that since there are way too many variables to make it anything else. It is also a contest of volume! (If you try to paint new stuff all the time! ! We all learn here and I'm sure "Froggy" has, maybe will see a redone photo of his excellent? "Nazi Fishmen" in a seaside setting.  I have learned in the future I will make sure I give the good Capt'n Blood a better description of my minis to post! but broken camera, and pea brain me could not figure out how to get the entry sent! was lucky I made the deadline.

I was and still am under the impression that this is a "forum" and the reason its called a "Forum" is that is where people through out history met to talk, discuss, debate, ideas and topics of the day in a Friendly manner. So any post here (at least by me, is only to that end and you can take it or leave it, its not accusational at all merely a discussion of thoughts.

Anyway lots of great painting by everyone, great inspiration!, and Hats off to Capt?n Blood for taken the time and putting in the effort to run this contest! And I hope I?ve not pissed anyone off cause I need all the votes I can get! Good luck to all!

[Pil]

I certainly wasn't pissed off I think in the end everyone has their own interests, and I do agree that the way the voting happens here will result in a popularity contest (of pictures, not people) rather than an objective comparison of painting quality. But since the original intention of the LPL was to get away from painting competitions where the bestest painters float to the surface by spending large amounts of time on a single model. I really like the setup but then I have invested time in getting together a lot of scenery so I like to show it off as well.

[Mancha]

Seriously though, I'm a competitive sort, so I really don't mind other people who also take it seriously and have a legitimate view about what might be done differently.

I find this comment, and the attitude it represents, refreshing, as it seems that anyone who expresses doubts about the rules (or even just asks for clarification on them) gets admonished, branded a "whiner", and their club membership is revoked.  Thank you for pointing out that rules discussions are legitimate.

If I enter a competition, I expect it to be fair.  This is not to say that the LPL is not fair, but there are things that could be done to level the playing field a little.  Most obviously, the names of the painters really should be removed.  If you think about it, presenting the names of the entrants serves no purpose whatsoever, other than letting people know that the entry is painting by someone we know, respect, and consider ourselves sort of "friends" with (in that weird online way).  We see the painter's name and say to ourselves "Oh neat, this was entered by Joe - he responded to my last thread about gaming and modelling 19th Century Bavarian psychopaths in Ethiopia." The obvious problem is that if we know, respect and consider ourselves friends with the painter, then this might influence our vote.

And regarding the idea that our vote would be influenced by knowledge of the painter: I didn't mean that this would happen in a blatant "Oh, I'm going to vote for Mr. X's entry because I like him, although Ms. Y's entry is clearly better" kind of way.  Rather, when we find ourselves in one of those wow-they're-both-so-good situations, we might then be subconsciously (or maybe not even so subconsciously) swayed by our knowledge of the identity of the painter, rather than continuing to focus on the paintjob.  People always deny that they would succumb to this, but anyone who's taken a research methods class, been involved in the field of advertising (or thought about the fact that they're the target of advertising!), or even just lived through that Pepsi Challenge advertising campaign of the 70s - 80s, should be aware of this.

There will be no changes to the rules - certainly not while the season is running anyway. So best not to ask
Try to just enjoy 

Well, I won't ask then, but I'll still point it out.  This would not, by the way, be a change in rules, per se, but would, rather, be a change in procedure.  Furthermore, while it makes sense that we would not alter the rules in the middle of the event, I have to point out that the rules are never altered in between events either.  In fact, the only chance for a change in rules seems to be when the rules are being discussed, which only happens during the event.

[Hammers]

If you think about it, presenting the names of the entrants serves no purpose whatsoever, other than letting people know that the entry is painting by someone we know, respect, and consider ourselves sort of "friends" with (in that weird online way). 

Gee... If that is true people must really hate me around here, at least during LPL S3R1.

[Mancha]

Gee... If that is true people must really hate me around here, at least during LPL S3R1.

While I get your irony (and appreciate your smiley), please notice that while you may be losing your pair-off, you have, nevertheless, earned a great deal of feedback.  This in itself may be evidence of the favor your name earns.  Additionally, yours is the only entry that violates the groupshot rule.  Can you state with absolute certainty that a no-name entry would have been allowed in if it violated this rule?

You know, your participation is greatly appreciated.  You've done well in past LPLs, you're obviously a great (and imaginitive) painter with a sense of humor, and I, for one, would be disappointed if you weren't taking part in the competition.  I have to admit that maybe it's legitimate to bend some rules for our favorite forum members--I'm disappointed, for example, that The Prof can't participate in this LPL, and I'd be perfectly happy to allow late entries from him just so we could see them.  I think it's strange that we'd bend certain rules, however, but fail to recognize the value, and potential danger, of entrants' names.

[dodge]

I certainly wasn't pissed off I think in the end everyone has their own interests, and I do agree that the way the voting happens here will result in a popularity contest (of pictures, not people) rather than an objective comparison of painting quality. But since the original intention of the LPL was to get away from painting competitions where the bestest painters float to the surface by spending large amounts of time on a single model. I really like the setup but then I have invested time in getting together a lot of scenery so I like to show it off as well.

Yes you did a very good job, and I was happy with our result, almost voted for you myself  but you didn't need my help  

If you think about it, presenting the names of the entrants serves no purpose whatsoever, other than letting people know that the entry is painting by someone we know, respect, and consider ourselves sort of "friends" with (in that weird online way). 

Gee... If that is true people must really hate me around here, at least during LPL S3R1.

you know I don't , though don't you  

You was robbed  

dodge