Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)

[BZ]

One of the earliest wargames supplements I ever bought was Warhammer Siege which was a massive complex, but inspiring set of rules covering sieges for Warhammer fantasy battles third edition (as well as sieges in 40k for Rogue Trader) the versions in later editions of Fantasy battle are much more playable but if you ever see a copy of the original its well worth picking up!

Siege rules for Kings of War are in the 2019 Clash of Kings supplement. IIRC they boil down to points values for siege equipment for attackers, defensive equipment for defenders , plus rules for moving between elements of the castle, and which types of units can hold which element. I think the walls etc were given stats a lot like the units so they could be attacked.

Those KoW rules looking interesting, thanks!

[BZ]

Another out of print book that is worth looking at if you get a chance is the Siege and Conquest supplement for Warhammer Ancient Battles. It has no provisions for magic or other fantasy aspects, but it is pretty good for the mundane aspects of sieges. It has some scenarios looking at sieges as well, such as sallies by the defenders.

Are there pre-set scenarios, or free-to-shape castles with definied point values?

[BZ]

A one inch wall can be fought over, higher than that human sized figures could not fight over them without ladders or ramps.

Yeah, but with human height walls it still doesnt feel like a real siege for me. But it could be certainly included in such a rulebook.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Yeah, but with human height walls it still doesnt feel like a real siege for me. But it could be certainly included in such a rulebook.

You are right in that a one inch wall is a fighting position, however it is not so much the wall is one inch, but the height compared to the figure's base.

Two turns of engineers on a three inch wall and you are (temporarily) down to a one inch wall (less with ladders or siege engines)

Also, the inside of a fortification will have a one inch wall (assuming human size design). So if the wall on the outside is two inches, and the walkway on the inside is an inch high a large figure on the outside can fight a human figure on the inside. Humans on both sides could not fight using their fight stat, it would be a special shoot attack (dropping rocks, spikes, boiling oil, hellfire... depending on scenario and equipment).

[BZ]

Also, the inside of a fortification will have a one inch wall (assuming human size design). So if the wall on the outside is two inches, and the walkway on the inside is an inch high a large figure on the outside can fight a human figure on the inside. Humans on both sides could not fight using their fight stat, it would be a special shoot attack (dropping rocks, spikes, boiling oil, hellfire... depending on scenario and equipment).

Now I understand! Good idea!

[andyskinner]

Still cant find anything about siege... Or am I misunderstanding, and there are no siege rules, but You are making your own, that fits to the core rules?

Right I am making my own.  I don't feel I need to have a lot of rules for this. As I said, maybe this is castle assault.  Not knocking down walls.  I hope the goblins can get somebody up to lower the drawbridge and let the trolls try to bash in the portcullis.

andy

[Griefbringer]

Are there pre-set scenarios, or free-to-shape castles with definied point values?

I do not have my copy of Siege and Conquest at hand, but I think the basic castle assault points were based on the same concept as with WHFB, so that attacker has twice the points value of defender.

If you want to come up with a system where the defender gets to design a custom castle and buy for it with points, then it is probably worth keeping in mind that in purely game terms the smallest castle is the one that is easiest to defend with limited forces. Having a larger castle is likely a disadvantage, as the defender has to spread out over a larger frontage, while the attacker as more choices as to where attack.

The advantage of the large castle or a city wall is that you can hide more valuable assets inside it during times of trouble.

[Mark]

Having checked the Warhammer 6th edition rulebook, it recommends 3000pts of attackers versus 1500pts of defenders on a "classic" castle - 4 towers and 4 wall sections (one with gate). It suggests an additional tower and wall for each full additional 500pts of defenders.

So no actual points values for castle sections, but you could have a reasonable guess as to the value of sections.

[Patrice]

We have been playing a few sieges (or in fact, attack of small castles) with Argad rules as part of larger events in a samurai campaign (historical context) there were no siege machines but basically what was done was climbing ladders and/or burning the gate etc. (and perhaps ninjas escalading the walls).

There are a few suggestions in the rules for this (or in past extensions somewhere) but it's intended for individually based miniatures, and to be used under GM control to avoid nitpicking... 

AARs (in French, sorry)
https://euthanasor-wargamesetmodelisme.blogspot.com/2018/01/sale-defaite-la-salle-des-fetes-compte.html
https://euthanasor-wargamesetmodelisme.blogspot.com/2018/03/mauvais-karma-pour-les-heritiers-compte.html

[BZ]

If you want to come up with a system where the defender gets to design a custom castle and buy for it with points, then it is probably worth keeping in mind that in purely game terms the smallest castle is the one that is easiest to defend with limited forces. Having a larger castle is likely a disadvantage, as the defender has to spread out over a larger frontage, while the attacker as more choices as to where attack.

The advantage of the large castle or a city wall is that you can hide more valuable assets inside it during times of trouble.

If the siege engines have the option to break down wall sections, then on a small castle, you could concentrate fire. So I think, that a small castle has not only benefits.

[BZ]

We have been playing a few sieges (or in fact, attack of small castles) with Argad rules as part of larger events in a samurai campaign (historical context) there were no siege machines but basically what was done was climbing ladders and/or burning the gate etc. (and perhaps ninjas escalading the walls).

There are a few suggestions in the rules for this (or in past extensions somewhere) but it's intended for individually based miniatures, and to be used under GM control to avoid nitpicking... 

AARs (in French, sorry)
https://euthanasor-wargamesetmodelisme.blogspot.com/2018/01/sale-defaite-la-salle-des-fetes-compte.html
https://euthanasor-wargamesetmodelisme.blogspot.com/2018/03/mauvais-karma-pour-les-heritiers-compte.html

Very nice pictures and a superb gaming table!

[BZ]

Having checked the Warhammer 6th edition rulebook, it recommends 3000pts of attackers versus 1500pts of defenders on a "classic" castle - 4 towers and 4 wall sections (one with gate). It suggests an additional tower and wall for each full additional 500pts of defenders.

So no actual points values for castle sections, but you could have a reasonable guess as to the value of sections.

Thanks! Thats a bit oversimplified for my taste... Im an engineer, and I would absolutely enjoy building and designing my own castle. So my wish-rules would include custom building options, as I wrote on my blog.

[steders]

I would say the rules for sieges in WHFB 6th edition were fantastic (and probably still are). Played them quite a few times, they seemed to be written with fun in mind.
Had some cracking games including a 40K one with some marines holding out against masses of orks and traitor imperial guard/renegades.
The rules in Lord of the Rings SBG are good as well, we did Helms deep a couple of Christmases ago,

[BZ]

The rules in Lord of the Rings SBG are good as well, we did Helms deep a couple of Christmases ago,

Thanks! Is it also so simple, taht the attackers have double point value?
Nice pictures!

[AKULA]

Used to have the WHFB Siege rules, but must confess that I never got beyond looking at the glossy artwork.

Simplicity is definitely the way to go, unless you want to turn the whole game into an accounting exercise.

Steders - lovely table....was that taken in the infamous Steders Shed?