CapnJim's Modern Stuff - Balczaki-Soviet Bridge Fight Full AAR - Pg 54-10 Aug 25

[CapnJim]

Send in the HINDS!!! 
Who makes the OMON figures?

Hinds?  Perhaps.  The gloves are coming off, so we shall see...

As for the OMON figures, I got them from a Kickstarter from Tiny Terrain Models several years ago.  I got enough Soviets/Russians for a full Motor Rifle Platoon, as well as enough left over with proper headgear to make up an OMON unit.  I also got a bunch of their Chechen irregulars, who are portraying the BFF fighters in Balczakistan.  Sadly, it appears that they are all out of production...

I wonder, if the Soviets send in the tanks, would it be like the Prague Spring?
Student protesters soon worked out that you could take a tank out,
some rags stuffed under the spare fuel tanks & a cigarette lighter would do it.

Could happen.  Depends on how the ensuing battles go.  But the various rules we could be using use would support such a thing. 

[carlos marighela]

Well you know what they say Jim. Everything looks clearer in Hind sight.

[CapnJim]

Tanks for that pun, carlos.  Right up my alley! 

[Rick]

I wonder, if the Soviets send in the tanks, would it be like the Prague Spring?
Student protesters soon worked out that you could take a tank out,
some rags stuffed under the spare fuel tanks & a cigarette lighter would do it.

/quote]

Quite a lot of people found out that a molotov cocktail onto the rear engine deck of a soviet tank would shut it down and cause the crew to bail out - especially those fitted with fire supression systems! 

[cuprum]

In fact, this hasn't worked for a long time. Since they started creating excess pressure inside military equipment to prevent radioactive dust from getting inside. The combustible mixture will simply flow down the armor... But you can burn the truck.

[Rick]

In fact, this hasn't worked for a long time. Since they started creating excess pressure inside military equipment to prevent radioactive dust from getting inside. The combustible mixture will simply flow down the armor... But you can burn the truck.

In fact it has, but not in the way you intended. In the older Soviet tanks with a single fire supression system, the fire doesn't have to penetrate the tank - a fire on the engine deck was often enough to set off the fire supression system which filled the tank with CO2 (more recently, Halon - but that's usually in tanks with seperate engine/crew compartment systems), causing the crew to bail out. Even the US Army and the Mujaheddin were aware of that trick.

[CapnJim]

Fear not, my friends.  My head is swirling with scenario ideas for what may come next in Balczakistan.  They include, but are not limited to:

A.  Soviet tanks and motor rifle infantry vs. Balczaki grunts.

2.  Soviet tanks and motor rifle infantry vs. their Balczaki counterparts.

c.  Guerillas thrown in on one or both sides.

IV.  Tanks and motor rifle infantry vs. rioters,either way (a Bahkmuht Spring kinda thing...)

E.  OMON vs. rioters.

This list goes on...

[cuprum]

Even the US Army and the Mujaheddin were aware of that trick.

Hmm... Here is a video from Kyiv in 2014, where Ukrainian riot police ram barricades with two armored personnel carriers. And these armored personnel carriers are subjected to a powerful blow from Molotov cocktails. Despite this attack and the sea of fire that engulfed the armored personnel carriers, the crews did not abandon them and remained alive. Although, judging by the footage, it was difficult to breathe inside:



Although one of the vehicles abandoned by the crew was later burned. But this was when the engine was turned off and excess pressure was not built up inside.

[Rick]

2014?

I thought we were talking about Soviet tanks in the 80's?
I think even the Russians had made one or two improvements since then.

[CapnJim]

2014?

I thought we were talking about Soviet tanks in the 80's?

More or less.  Late summer and fall of 1990 to be exact...this last scenario was set in late August.

[Rick]

Ah but still nowhere near 2014. That's good to know - no-one has suddenly invented a time machine and started playing silly buggers with the tanks again! 

[carlos marighela]

The effectiveness of molotov cocktails against post-war closed top AFVs has always been somewhat limited If you can somehow get a fire going inside the crew compartment or the engine bay, then OK you are in with a chance but that's not an easy proposition. They are less vulnerable for a variety of reasons than their WW2 counterparts. Pretty much all of them are better sealed for amphibious or water crossings reasons. Pretty much all of them have an NBC overpressure system and with a few exceptions in APCs all of them run on far less flammable diesel. Engine compartments are far more effectively sealed off from crew compartments and typically don't draft air in via the crew compartment.

It doesn't even require overpressure to defeat a molotov. Have a little think about the number of times petrol bombs were chucked at Saracens, Pigs and armoured Land Rovers of different types in Northern Ireland all for negligible result.

[Rick]

I had to check back along the thread just to make sure we were actually having the same conversation. I mentioned that there was a flaw in Soviet tank design from about the 60's and 70's (well known in US Army circles and, apparently, also to the Mujaheddin) and then you bring in apc's, Saracen's, Humber Pigs and how difficult it would be to start a fire inside the engine compartment - something that I never even mentioned. Carlos - we do appear to be having completely different conversations here, why don't we both just leave it at this point, yes?

[CapnJim]

Um, careful there.  We're bordering on getting a bit too crunchy.  I'd just as soon my thread not get locked...

[Rick]

Sorry Cap'n Jim - I'll go back and tone it down a bit, I probably went off a little too much. Is that better?