Fram's general buildy thread (Update 12-24 - Overblown gramophone)

[FramFramson]

Sometimes a little. I try not to get it too wet and it's generally fine.

[Constable Bertrand]

Amazing builds Fram, I've just discovered this little gem of a thread. What a almanac of ideas and tips.

Thanks!
Matt.

[OSHIROmodels]

Whoa, blast from the past 

They look great mate 

I hope the gel is ok, it'd be a shame if it wasn't 

cheers

James

[FramFramson]

Oh no worries. If it's bad, I'll just go and buy a new tub. This is why we do test patches!

So far it looks like the surface will dry a little unevenly, but the end effect might actually work well. That might also be because I mixed in a little water (you can thin this gel with water; it's acrylic and says as much). I will also probably do the final in multiple thinner coats. I will probably need to add a gloss varnish too and that's much more fluid. The gel is supposed to be a gloss, but it's not quite as wet and glossy as I'd like, but that actually gives me a bit more flexibility even though it adds a small extra step.

The most annoying problem will be waiting days and days for the stuff to dry!

[matthais-mouse]

Very inspirational stuff here many thanks for sharing photo's

[OSHIROmodels]

The most annoying problem will be waiting days and days for the stuff to dry!

Well, seeing how it took two years to update the thread I don't see that as a problem 

cheers

James

[FramFramson]

 

[FramFramson]

Having a spot of bother with my water pours.

The first layer was self-levelling clear gel (and that turned into something of a bigger disaster which I will go into later, but it did dry transparent eventually, so not all was lost). The issue I'm trying to fix is surface pockmarks caused by bubbles. I can live with a few subsurface bubbles, no big deal, but the pitted surface is irritating. I tried smoothing it with a much thinner pour of my gloss varnish (which is normally fine on figures), but that had bubbles too! I tried tapping the boards to try and force out some bubbles, but I'd have to be doing that constantly for hours to have much luck there. I also tried a trick where you lightly mist isopropyl alcohol on the surface to break surface tension and while it does work, it doesn't deal with the lower bubbles that rise up slowly over time.

I'm going to try a third time, with a much thinner coat that has a good deal of flow improver added in the hopes that that will give me a bubble-free layer, but does anyone have any other ideas to consider?

[6milPhil]

Hover over it while it cures with a pin?

[FramFramson]

Tried that too. I'd think I'd got 'em all, only to come back later and see more. In any case, the later ones don't fill in anyway, because the stuff is half-dry at that point. So popping the later ones doesn't help at all. And for popping surface bubbles the alcohol works much better (it works by breaking the surface tension and then it evaporates).

[FramFramson]

Bloody hell, using self-levelling clear gel is not something I would ever recommend for anyone else. At first, the bubbles were my only problem. Then in a later pour - no more than 1-2mm deep - I had massive separation cracks appear. I thought maybe the stuff had gone off by virtue of being too old, but I bought a new bottle and damned if it didn't do it again! Temperature's fine, humidity's fine, I poured carefully, god knows what it is but this stuff seems incredibly fickle and unforgiving. But it didn't even do it consistently again - one pour it did and another it didn't. Right now my water features are ruined, but I may save them yet with a little careful pouring and some luck since I still have a little bit of depth left to play with (not much though...).

For the life of me I can't understand it - surely this wouldn't even sell at all if the it did this to every artist who tried to coat a canvas. I have no idea what I'm doing that's so so wrong.

[Constable Bertrand]

 

[OSHIROmodels]

It might be a bad batch from the manufacturer that has been contaminated somehow 

You could always contact them and complain and get yourself a new one. That might do the trick.

cheers

James

[matthais-mouse]

A few of the water scenic materials I have used go soft again when heated, would you be able to go over it with a hair dryer to re melt it and see if that works or to help remove it maybe?
Or would the heat distort your scenery too much?
Its an odd idea I know but I'm going from what I have read/seen and even tried once, but the material I used was the woodland scenics easy pour water.

Ill try find the tutorial I saw for this and post it...

[FramFramson]

That is astounding stuff. I wish my terrain looked even a quarter as good!

Thanks Scurv. I say the same about some other people on here!

A few of the water scenic materials I have used go soft again when heated, would you be able to go over it with a hair dryer to re melt it and see if that works or to help remove it maybe?
Or would the heat distort your scenery too much?
Its an odd idea I know but I'm going from what I have read/seen and even tried once, but the material I used was the woodland scenics easy pour water.

Ill try find the tutorial I saw for this and post it...

I'm using a water-based acrylic gel because I had some already and it's cheaper than the water elements resin. I'd heard about all sorts of nightmares with that stuff and thought I would avoid it! Ha!

But no, I can't re-heat the stuff.

It might be a bad batch from the manufacturer that has been contaminated somehow  

You could always contact them and complain and get yourself a new one. That might do the trick.

cheers

James

I don't think so, it's two batches bought several years apart. I thought maybe the one I was using was too old, but the new one did the same. I suspect that the problem is the material doesn't take kindly to drying at any real thickness with irregular depths. If I'm filling cracks, I have to fill the cracks, then redo the surface once it's all more-or-less flat again. It could also have some sort of problem when drying over a layer of gloss varnish.

Basically what happened was:

- Initial pour, about 2mm. Fine but trouble with bubbling and I warped my boards somewhat because the layers of paint as a bed evidently weren't enough of a waterproofing.
- Tried to resolve bubbling issues with a layer of gloss varnish which always goes fine over minis, but now THAT bubbled.
- Second layer of gloss varnish. Slightly better but still significant bubbling. I also noticed that the gloss varnish is actually picking up fingerprints long after drying and don't know why.
- Tried another go with the gel on one of my three ponds, this time maybe 1 mm, slightly diluted with water to get a better pour (it says right on the tub you can dilute with water). Less bubbling but disastrous, horrendous cracking.
- Buy new tub, started another even thinner pour on the first ruined pond, focusing on filling in the cracks. It's better, but not fixed. Might need another one or two thin, crack-filling pours to bring up to level, hoping I can salvage it. Also did a thin, 1mm pour on a second pond at the same time, since that seemed to be working, only to have the new pour in the second pond crack horrendously too.

In between, I've also tested preparations by doing pours into jar lids and such. The tests of course always work fine, although they'd had bubbling too.

All of this while waiting several days for various pours to dry. I have one pond that still under double varnish without a new pour of gel, but it has a fair bit of bubbling. I'm wondering whether to just try brushing on a really thin coat of gel to see if that staves off cracking. On the plus side the new bottle seems less pernicious about bubbling, but maybe that's a function of thinner pours.