The Range is Hot! Please see page 13 for quick straw poll.

[commissarmoody]

Well I am still more interested in IDF, South and north Koreans then I am in Generics.

[carlos marighela]

So, the suggestions to date seem to run to.

South Koreans, for whom nobody makes any opposition.

IDF, for whom nobody makes any opposition (albeit Eureka have just released some new Iraqi civilians, some of which could be re-purposed as Palestinian civilians) and for whom it would appear two new ranges are either on the market or about to emerge.

A number of random suggestions for ranges that already exist, often in multiple examples like Germans, French, Australians, Japanese etc,

Generic troops for all kinds of potential opposition to existing ranges but, as we are authoritatively told, won't sell or rather won't sell beyond the current market for people who collect or game modern warfare . That implies a market beyond the existing one for the other suggestions. I won't presume to guess as to who or where that might be. Others more knowledgeable than me will surely comment.

Right, since we have reached the traditional outcome of such threads, I shall, apropos of nothing, request a range of modern Brazilian Army figures armed with the new IA-2 and Minimis. I shall want head variants in both kevlar helmets and in bush hats.

[commissarmoody]

[quote author=carlos marighela link=topic=80488.msg994997#msg994997

Right, since we have reached the traditional outcome of such threads, I shall, apropos of nothing, request a range of modern Brazilian Army figures armed with the new IA-2 and Minimis. I shall want head variants in both kevlar helmets and in bush hats.
[/quote] well if that's the run of it, I would also like some Venezuelans, Colombians, and Mexican troops too. :p

[carlos marighela]

[quote author=carlos marighela link=topic=80488.msg994997#msg994997

Right, since we have reached the traditional outcome of such threads, I shall, apropos of nothing, request a range of modern Brazilian Army figures armed with the new IA-2 and Minimis. I shall want head variants in both kevlar helmets and in bush hats.
 well if that's the run of it, I would also like some Venezuelans, Colombians, and Mexican troops too. :p

Venezuelans? Chaps in BDUs, Kevlar pots, chest rigs and AKs? Nah, can't see a market for figures like that. 

In their absence, the TAG Vietnam Special Forces with AKs will make workable proxies.

[commissarmoody]

Venezuelans? Chaps in BDUs, Kevlar pots, chest rigs and AKs? Nah, can't see a market for figures like that. 

In their absence, the TAG Vietnam Special Forces with AKs will make workable proxies.

Exactly what I was think 

And I can use my Emprises ultra modern Russians for the best Equipped units, trainers, etc..

[DeltaBravo]

And there, chaps, is why its bloomin' hard to get a line off the ground  

If we take African Union/peacekeeper type troops, you could do a generic figure in kevlar, KPOT and so on, and if you want them to be Ugandans and their AKMs that could work...  but if you want them to be Zimbabweans with their AKMs well the cut of the uniform is slightly different but more glaringly they are trained to hold the sodding rifle in a different way...  and good luck trying to pass them off as Kenyans with their G3s held in yet another completely different style.  Head and weapon/arm swaps as options will get you so far, but each army has a very different 'look and feel' that comes more from how they hold themselves than their uniform/weapon (in my fussy opinion).  

And what's the story you sell to the customer to make them buy a generic pack?  Particularly when wargamers are frugal beasts and can make do by using US special forces as Venezuelans?  How do you sell using the same figures as Opfor to themselves, when the differences would just be heads & guns & paint job?

I threw my hands up in defeat trying to work that out so I'm just plumping for specific nations - so (for example) I can get behind and sell a story around Syrians as opfor for the IDF, and if you think with a head swap they'd pass for someone else, great.  My 'generic African Union' will actually just be Ugandans, because they're active buggers and I can tell you about their forays into Somalia, South Sudan and DRC etc (and what figures work for their enemies) to try to make you buy them.  If they happen to pass for Venezuelans, great.

I have the same beef with generic insurgents - the ones put out by Empress and Spectre are lovely, and I have plenty, but I look at them, and I look at pictures from current conflicts, and to my eye they just don't look like any particular set of insurgents.  But they're the only game in town for now, and they're close enough for Government work, so...

All that said, I think a generic line could work, but in plastic where you can have all the different separate arms and weapons and torsos and bits of webbing to add to it, and people can customize to their hearts content.  Whoever can pony up the £30k to do it would have a very marketable (if fiddly) box set.

YMMV but in metal/resin I think you just have to pick a conflict and go to town on that - creating the demand through good sculpts and supporting material.  eg. Who knew they needed PLA before Empress and their Kickstarter?  (OK, it was the USMC and Aussies that carried that, but...)

[Arlequín]

YMMV but in metal/resin I think you just have to pick a conflict and go to town on that - creating the demand through good sculpts and supporting material.  eg. Who knew they needed PLA before Empress and their Kickstarter?  (OK, it was the USMC and Aussies that carried that, but...)

... I have to agree. The more imaginative folk will soon work out what can be used as something else. Bring out a generic force and a lot of people will be looking in an Atlas for 'Generica'.

Selling an imaginary conflict is not so difficult... it's a common train of thought that China and the U.S./SEATO will clash at some point (although I suspect not), there are those who have put forward a U.S. versus Mexico scenario (or previously a U.S. versus Venezuela/Cuba one). Oddly there are many who would have ridiculed you for suggesting that in future Britain would fight Argentina over the Falklands, till it actually happened.

If I wanted to promote a 'generic' range, I would dress it up as something else - 'Red Dawn' is a pretty ridiculous concept, yet the amount of people who would subscribe to that is probably considerable. Choose your invader (Cubans, Venezuelans, PLA, North Korea, the Govmint, all of them, aliens, whatever) and your 'generic' range becomes the 'resistance'. Those of you who remember the TV show 'Jericho' might even want to pit militia against militia in a balkanized U.S.A. - The point is that if you give the range a name, it will probably do far better than merely labelling them 'generic', which is the same as calling them 'nothing in particular'. 

[carlos marighela]

Indeedy. It's just the marketing. If you promote them as Syrians/ Venezuelans/ Vietamese/ whatever that just happen to be REALLY USEFUL as [insert army here]. I reckon you will have no problem selling them.

If it was me, I'd be tempted to have fun with it and do an advertising rip of off of supermarket no-name brand goods. Brand X modern troopers, available in a variety of flavours.

[Elk101]

I'd still buy in to a generic range if it allowed me to field a decent enough VPA force for my South East Asia imagi-nation. It's a fair point about the marketing side of things, I would like figures that I can use for an idea I already have. You need to be able to sell customers figures for an idea you give them if you want to increase sales beyond people like us LAFers!

Arlequin's 'hook' idea is a good one.

[AKULA]

Arlequin's 'hook' idea is a good one.

It will never catch on.....

 

[Arrigo]

Oddly there are many who would have ridiculed you for suggesting that in future Britain would fight Argentina over the Falklands, till it actually happened.

Well certainly John Nott would have ridiculed you...  I think it was in January/February 1982 when Julian Thompson broached the idea  but well you do not have to have a war... you just park the task foroce around west Falklands, build a runway for F4M and then set a blockade (no it is not a joke, Sandy Woodward came to Julian Thompson with such an idea... and then you have the Rio Grande raid...)

Now back to ranges... I tend to agree with Delta Bravo. Just do a real force there will be less problems. I say ROKA and KPA. The combination is quite useful not only you have force A and B in a set, but they fit well with USA/USMC, Australia, Russians, PLA ranges already out. In  a pinch they can be used for Red Dawn (I think the remake was stupid, I think the people who clamour for doing it in miniature are very few... but well you cater even to them).

Look this way, I prefer to have a real army and then, if really necessary proxy them for some "generic force" than viceversa.

Also if you do KPA...




Arlequin: yes you can have US militia vs US militia... but then you need an A-10 Strike to keep them apart!

[Arlequín]

Oddly the remake of Red Dawn was only changed to 'North Korea' partway through filming, it was meant to be the Chinese up to that point. Personally I'd go for the original, but that's off-topic.

 

It will never catch on.....

 

 

[arget8]

I have actually been considering doing a Red Dawn type range where both the generic troops and insurgents will be set up for a 1980's-present insurgent movement in either America, the Middle East, or Europe. Maybe writing up a source book for it. If I did USA, it would make more sense to have M16's or the like (Until the arms started getting smuggled in) while Europe and the Middle East would be more likely to have AK's. Just some thoughts.

I am taking everything people are saying into consideration, so even if I don't respond to you directly, I am listening.

I can see where you guys are coming from. Maybe Koreans or IDF would be the better option.

[Arlequín]

I wouldn't be too fickle about the weapons. While the AR-15 is still the most sold semi-auto rifle in the U.S., there are large numbers of AK-47/AKM/AKMS in private hands too. You could pretty much justify the ownership of virtually any rifle made since 1940 in fact.

Weapons ownership in Europe is very restricted and until they capture weapons, bolt-action hunting rifles are the most likely common weapon and then few and far between.

[arget8]

Right now, I am leaning towards KPA and ROKA. I've been looking at pictures of KPA uniforms and ROKA uniforms and I feel that they could both be relatively versatile if separate heads were provided. The KPA could double as the generic army with Chicom webbing and AKMs while the South Koreans, if digitally sculpted, could be used as the base for a generic 1st/2nd world army. The basic uniforms and poses could be kept and the equipment swapped out. All it would take to repurpose the KPA is to make separate heads.

If anyone has pictures of the KPA or ROKA that would provide good evidence to support or refute this idea, please put them here, as long as they don't violate forum rules. Mainly I'm looking for KPA wearing somewhat BDU styled uniforms or Chicom rigs and ROKA wearing their most common gear. They seem to wear all manner of gear. I've seen pictures of them wearing modern ballistic vests with molle gear, PASGT vests with 1990's era LBE, and no vest. My assumption is that the front line forces wear the best gear while the reserve forces wear the older stuff, but I honestly have no idea.

Let me know what you guys think.