How is Pike and Shot and Zombies?

[Rob_bresnen]

Could you play it with two people- one Humans and one GM/ Zombies?

[Argonor]

Could you play it with two people- one Humans and one GM/ Zombies?

Definitely - and you can have the Survivor player play with a single character or a group. You can also play both co-operative style with more players, and competitive/hostile style with each player controlling one or more survivors and fighting each other.

VERY versatile system - I'm not quite through reading, but I REALLY like what I've read so far. The game has a lot of RPG-qualities to it, that allows for a deeper involvement by the players in their character/group, and/or you can opt to just play it as a one-off skirmish games. I would recommend the former, though - there's some work involved in fleshing out the characters that should not be 'wasted' on one-off games.

Like I was rambling about earlier, I'll make a little 'Warhammer: Extinction' project out of this;
I'll make a table with bonusses and penaltied on the character/equipment generation tables based on race, so any Warhammer player can just roll up a survivour from his favourite army and bring the mini best fitting the result to the game.

Already have some ideas - I'll post them here in another thread for comments and criticism, as soon as I get some of it written down.

I think PSZ has a good potential as a laid back 'bring-and-battle' game, where you can have an open group of players for an ongoing series/campaign - no matter if you play it 'historically' or 'fantasy-ish'.

[Argonor]

OK...

The rules for moving the undead are completely DAFT. I'm not going to roll a dice freely on the painted  sand on my table to have it bounce around, chip the colour, and possibly knock my painted minis about. What kind of gamer comes up with that??? I always use a dice-cup and a coaster to minimize the noise and risk associated with rolling pieces of hard plastic, wood or bone.

And the aiming rules make no sense to me. Why not just make aiming an action, instead of having to remember the relative positions of all minis at the beginning of the turn??? (as per the rules you can only aim if you had LOS to the target at the beginning of the turn). And if you have 'always' for aiming, it's free...

Those two things will have to be altered.

[dinohunterpoa]

I agree that most historical periods could probably be played.

Even Dead walk Again has rules for more primitive weapons, and as it has no points system, because it's also about players cooperating against overwhelming odds, anyway, the existing firearms can just be altered to reflect black powder weapons (or omitted, if you want to go all medieval on the zeds).

Actually, that's a brilliant idea, if I may say so. I'll go about making a list to use for Warhammer/Mordheim models - maybe I can get some more people to play DwA, even though they do not want to do moderns...  

An alternative search chart must be creted, too... hmmm...  

In  my humble experience, every "fantasy" or "historical" game player that was not initially inclined to try a "modern zombie survival game" simply got hooked by our games (zombie survival in a "GW Old-World"- like world!)  

The game has a lot of RPG-qualities to it, that allows for a deeper involvement by the players in their character/group, and/or you can opt to just play it as a one-off skirmish games.

That's sounds great to me!

I'm not going to roll a dice freely on the painted  sand on my table to have it bounce around, chip the colour, and possibly knock my painted minis about. What kind of gamer comes up with that??? I always use a dice-cup and a coaster to minimize the noise and risk associated with rolling pieces of hard plastic, wood or bone.

Yep! Have you considered using a dice tower? They can be integrated as usable scenery pieces as well!  

And from somewhere in the web about P&S&Z: To make matters worse for the survivors, the umpire has at their disposal an extensive deck of event-cards. These create a wide variety of unforeseen, awkward and even downright dangerous situations that can trip up the most prepared band of survivors - from fumbling weapon handling and misfires, accidental powder explosions, to bad omens and even accusations of witchcraft.  

 

[Argonor]

Yep! Have you considered using a dice tower? They can be integrated as usable scenery pieces as well!  

Yes, but the problem is, per the rules that be, you roll the die to get it to land between the zeds and their intended target - and then have to move the zeds in the direction where the die lands. So you have to roll the die freely and fairly close to either zeds or survivors, unless you want to make a 'petanque' roll from far away 

Not going to happen on my table!  - I'll just use the 'target priority' for direction, and then use the other mechanics regading the somewhat random undead movement.

Dead walk Again IS a better and simpler system, IMHO, but given the time I have for hobbying these years, I would probably not get the weapons/equipment/survivour tables done for a renaissance/warhammer setting anytime soon.

Now, I just have to make som tables with racial bonusses/penalties for rolling up the characters, and I'm ready to go (when I have the undead needed).

[Lowtardog]

Instead of dice you could consider using fluffy balls the type used in arts and crafts, that way you keep to the spirit of the rules

[Argonor]

Instead of dice you could consider using fluffy balls the type used in arts and crafts, that way you keep to the spirit of the rules

No. I'm not going to throw anything onto a gaming table with minis and terrain on it. Period. There'll be a LOT of plastics on such a table, and even a light object might knock over some carefully painted minis.

There's also no need for further randomness, when a dice roll also determines, how many zeds actually move. Remember, the zeds are controlled by a GM that probably wants players for his games - so he'll probably not try to stack the odds totally against the survivors, anyway, but try to ensure that everybody has fun in the spirit of the setting. Rules are only for providing a framework, not written in stone - if you don't like something in the rules (and I don't like that part), change it.

And I maintain my opinion, that a mechanic that is potentially damaging to board, terrain, and minis, is a daft, non-elegant solution. I wouldn't play 'Little Wars' with carefully painted minis, either.

A movement template with six numbered arrows withinin a 45-60 degree angle, for instance,  would provide some randomness to the directional movement, and not be hazardous to my mental state.

[meninobesta]

hello,

for random direction, you can always use the scatter dice from GW or order some from em4 (they also have blank dice, in which you can write whatever you want)

but anyway, you should adapt the rules to your own tastes

[Argonor]

for random direction, you can always use the scatter dice from GW or order some from em4 (they also have blank dice, in which you can write whatever you want)

Except, that the direction is TOTALLY random with that - you could, of course, rule that the opposite direction of the arrow is also permitted. Then, again, you might still end up with a movement that is perpendicular to the direction you wanted, which is unlikely when rolling a die between the zeds and their intended target. I really think that the guidelines for target priority - which ARE present in the rules - are enough for directing the zombies. After all, their only objective is to come and get you...  

[Vinlander]

Well, they are technically dead and therefore not given to thinking too much 

 The zeds only move in a random manner when:

A) No suriviors in sight (12" los range)

B) Not attracted to noise made by survivors (ie. gunshots, blowing something up, close combat, failing a stealthy move, falling off a balcony etc...).

 as to the 'Move towards the dice' mechanic, If you have a nice modelled table that you don't want chipped or scratched then don't roll on your table and risk damaging it. It is terribly frustrating when damage occurs to a nicely done table like that (I was at a small con here about fifteen years ago with a modelled terrain table. Returning from the rest room I was thoroughly poisoned to discover that some twat had laid his pepsi tin on it    resulting in a pepsi tin sized ring in the flocking). But, if you generally play on a felt gaming mat as we do here, its not so much of a problem.

Minis and scenery sadly are subject to the wear and tear of gaming however cautious you are. No one likes their models dinged up but it is really unavoidable. In our gaming here with the 'Dertflinghan' campaign (which will be ressurected in the near future ) we have always tried to be as careful around the models and terrain as possible when rolling dice and measuring and damage really hasn't been a problem.

The rules don't specify that you have to roll the dice in front of your models it just says they will move towards the location of the dice. Put to it, you don't have to roll on the table even. Just move the number rolled in zombies that many inches towards where the dice landed.  They are never going to move more that 6" in one move anyway (unless an event card is played) so does it make that much difference? The dice really just gives them a direction to follow. 

[Argonor]

As I said before, I really think it is a stupid way to randomize movement - it's a wargame, not petanque.  

Do it however you want to, I'll stick to my opinion and way of doing it - and as I'm not likely to bounce into someone else who plays the game other than when I stage it (the average Danish gamer is completely oblivious to the fact that wargaming exists outside the so-called 'GW-hobby'), I don't think I'll run into many arguments about it not being stricly ballroom, as long as I run a 'fair' game (in quotation marks, because a zombie game will never be quite fair to the survivors).

[Vinlander]

Do it however you want to, I'll stick to my opinion and way of doing it ...  as long as I run a 'fair' game (in quotation marks, because a zombie game will never be quite fair to the survivors).

Absolutely. It is your game after all. 

(the average Danish gamer is completely oblivious to the fact that wargaming exists outside the so-called 'GW-hobby'),

Yes, we have lots of that in Canada too. 

Just tell them its a new way to play Mordheim  you never know. It might work...

[Argonor]

Just tell them its a new way to play Mordheim  you never know. It might work...

Actually, I'm going to say it's an alternative ruleset for playing zombie games in the Warhammer world  - which it will be, as soon as I have thought out the racial benefits/penalties for character generation.

Haven't had time to finish reading the entire ruleset, yet, was at something called the Barda-gathering (a LARP-event for children run by Danish television (DR)) doing voluntary work for my club all Sunday (we get a nice payment for the club, to turn into better gaming materials/props/whatever).

[Vinlander]

 Nice!

Its good when Gamers can do good work in the community 

I downloaded the 'Plague City' suppliment as well ( and all the others actually) which has very mordheim-esque scenarios, hence my allusion. 

[Vinlander]

 Just a little update for everyone.

 I am now half way through painting 30 Mantic zombies.  

I have a small group of figs that I'm going to use as a survivor band from back when Jet and I dabbled in SOBAH:

http://geektactica.blogspot.com/2009/03/human-border-patrol-song-of-blades-and.html

I still like those rules but he finds them too simplistic (Git!). I know, they're not exactly 30 years war but they'll do for a couple of trial runs. I'm going to add one or two new models with gunpowder weapons just to add that aspect to our test games as it is sort of important...  

I hope to be ready for a game next weekend. Provided my wife's absurd work schedule doesn't interfere.

I'll keep you posted