The Doggerland Front; where are the Dutch?

[Return of the Modhail]

Meaning that they could not possibly defend all of the new land, just like the others would not be able to take and hold it either. So raids and patrols would be the norm. And Dutch settlers thrown into the mix is absolutely a great idea! The potential for inclusion of civilian militia is too good to pass up

Absolutely, for political and economical reasons they'd argue a claim to those swathes of land, but they'd not have anywhere near the military power to enforce it. I was mainly thinking those fishing outposts dotted along river banks would give the Dutch a good degree of surveillance on who's in the hinterlands, and many opportunities to trade, tax, or otherwise be thorn in the side of many expeditions. And eager to make a profit off their passing through, whether official or unofficial.

And yeah, I love the idea of complicating a scenario by suddenly introducing an angry Dutch farmer and his witch daughter demanding you leave "his land"! 

[Daeothar]

And yeah, I love the idea of complicating a scenario by suddenly introducing an angry Dutch farmer and his witch daughter demanding you leave "his land"! 

Van de werft gaai, of ik loat d'nond los! 

[Daeothar]

In the meantime, I've gone through Wargames Atlantic's digital design catalogue again and I've identified most of the files I had been eying a couple of months ago. Oddly enough, I can't seem to find the rather essential file of heads wearing Adrian helmets anymore, but I'll keep on searching.

There are several options for the bodies. As I said before; I'm not a button counter, but several items should be clearly represented. One of those are puttees, and those are well represented on these options:

WW1 Canadians



American Doughboys



And this vignette like model has useful headgear; Sgt. Stubby



And for the mounted elements, the German cavalry is a good starting point:



There are quite a few more sets, or parts thereof, that could be useful though, like a baggage train with mules and carts, laden with construction materials, French Foreign Legion, which could donate their kepi's, and quite a few more.

In fact, there are several sets obviously geared towards this very setting, such as pagan conversion sets or priests.

Now for those Adrian helmets

[Return of the Modhail]

Now for those Adrian helmets

Wargaming3D might have what you need?
https://www.wargaming3d.com/?product_cat=&s=adrian&post_type=product&apbct_visible_fields=%7B%220%22%3A%7B%22visible_fields%22%3A%22product_cat+s%22%2C%22visible_fields_count%22%3A2%2C%22invisible_fields%22%3A%22post_type%22%2C%22invisible_fields_count%22%3A1%7D%7D

[Daeothar]

That's them!

I must have misremembered where I saw them. Cheers for that

[zeppelfahrt]

So. Many. Projects... 

My wife and I have been busy moving out of our home of thirty years - a process that began last February.  Only one project but a very big one indeed.

I managed to finish these chaps before packing everything away.   Herr Schultz "Der Rote Schwaben" and his side-kick Jackli. I have plans for five more and possibly a rabbit.

Great stuff from Modhail!

Refreshing to see the thread awaken.

[Chairface]

That's lovely! Well done

[area23]

As far as I can tell from the very limited background in the book, there is virtually no infrastructure in the Doggerland. So no roads or railroads for sure, but I can imagine that the Dutch would change this pretty quickly. If only because border patrols would be taking the same route every round, so pretty soon, small footpaths and horse tracks would be created all along the borders.

Also, I can imagine dirt roads being worn into the landscape eventually when supplying outposts/fortresses. Especially when using trucks, horses and carts and the like. And then there's the digging effort in the North, which would require steam engines, and other large equipment. Probably these would be brought in by boat from the old mainland, but once on site, they would have to be operated in the dirt.

I'm imagining the 'shell-road' (schelpenpad) would be a quick solution to improvise a road network, at least for the "regimentspatrouilles" on bicycles. I suppose doggerland would be full of shellbanks anyway.
Imagine a table of kwelders interupted by a  white line of a shell road, a single wooden watchtower, a barrack for a garrisson next to improvised earthworks.  A bit like the Wadden islands or the Veluwe.
(... remembering my childhood, the long summers and biketrips with my grandparents on the Veluwe)

I like the idea of the Colony for the poor, 'antisocials' brought from the poor areas of the cities and forced to plant trees or dune grass as part of the reeducation program.

And magic would be really modest. No true Dutch would show off their magical powers in front of everybody.

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

Great figs, but I am immediately hit by the sheer implausibility of a WW1 level of technology using hero ever donning a shield and sword, particularly while wearing a gas mask.  Having spent some time in MOPP4, just walking is hard enough, much less dodging machine gun fire/mortar bombs, and diving into artillery craters for protect in an attempt to charge close enough to engage an opponent with a sword in a melee.  Even sniper armour was found to be a waste of time.  This was the same thing that made me laugh out loud about chain swords and other melee weapons in 40k.  Just call me Han Solo and let me stick to a modified broomstick mauser for a weapon.

[Daeothar]

I'm imagining the 'shell-road' (schelpenpad) would be a quick solution to improvise a road network, at least for the "regimentspatrouilles" on bicycles. I suppose doggerland would be full of shellbanks anyway.
Imagine a table of kwelders interupted by a  white line of a shell road, a single wooden watchtower, a barrack for a garrisson next to improvised earthworks.  A bit like the Wadden islands or the Veluwe.
(... remembering my childhood, the long summers and biketrips with my grandparents on the Veluwe)

You're having the same ideas I have, based on roughly the same memories

I was thinking about a small (border) outpost with a wooden guard tower, maybe some earthworks and one or two simple buildings. And this would be one of the larger posts along the borders. I imagine two or more smaller posts inbetween each of these, which are manned by just a handful of men (or maybe none at all?). Light cavalry patrols would regularly pass by them, possibly relieving the troops there.

I like the idea of shell roads; I had been thinking of simple dirt paths, worn into the ground through extensive patrolling.

I like the idea of the Colony for the poor, 'antisocials' brought from the poor areas of the cities and forced to plant trees or dune grass as part of the reeducation program.

Like the Veenkolonieën? Excellent idea!

And magic would be really modest. No true Dutch would show off their magical powers in front of everybody.

Very true that But I was thinking along the lines that the Dutch have a stronger connection to the Doggerland than most others, resulting in them having an above average access to magic. Possibly two magic users in the force instead of one.

Also I strongly agree; it's not very Dutch to be wearing flashy robes and ornate head dresses to signify you're magical and special. Doe maar gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg! No; I was thinking of using older ladies in traditional regional dress (klederdracht), wielding discrete supporting powers.

I love the idea of an army unit clad in field grey, accompanied by a dour old woman in traditional garb, who will support them in the field with her scrying, clairvoyance, blessings and herbcraft.

Great figs, but I am immediately hit by the sheer implausibility of a WW1 level of technology using hero ever donning a shield and sword, particularly while wearing a gas mask.  Having spent some time in MOPP4, just walking is hard enough, much less dodging machine gun fire/mortar bombs, and diving into artillery craters for protect in an attempt to charge close enough to engage an opponent with a sword in a melee.  Even sniper armour was found to be a waste of time.  This was the same thing that made me laugh out loud about chain swords and other melee weapons in 40k.  Just call me Han Solo and let me stick to a modified broomstick mauser for a weapon.

It's called suspension of disbelief. And also the rule of cool

We're talking about a piece of land that rose up from the sea because the moon started acting weird, and it grants magical powers to some people too. Also; driving WW1 tanks and cars across hundreds of miles of freshly reclaimed land without roads. So getting over a guy wearing a gasmask and a shield is not that hard

@ zeppelfahrt; awesome work btw

[area23]

Very true that But I was thinking along the lines that the Dutch have a stronger connection to the Doggerland than most others, resulting in them having an above average access to magic. Possibly two magic users in the force instead of one.

Also I strongly agree; it's not very Dutch to be wearing flashy robes and ornate head dresses to signify you're magical and special. Doe maar gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg! No; I was thinking of using older ladies in traditional regional dress (klederdracht), wielding discrete supporting powers.

I love the idea of an army unit clad in field grey, accompanied by a dour old woman in traditional garb, who will support them in the field with her scrying, clairvoyance, blessings and herbcraft.

Great stuff! Or perhaps a blind old whale hunter from the islands having visions. Thinking of it, on Terschelling they celebrate Sunderklaas which is quite a pagan matter with very strange costumes.

Dutch Folk Horror. 

[Daeothar]

Dutch Folk Horror. 

Oh, we can take that a long way, for sure! 

There's this page, full of ideas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore_of_the_Low_Countries

I still have to watch this (I just stumbled upon it) but I'm sure to now; an actual Dutch folk horror movie: Moloch (2022)

And here are some pictures from Sunderklaas. Inspirational to say the least!

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

You're having the same ideas I have, based on roughly the same memories

I was thinking about a small (border) outpost with a wooden guard tower, maybe some earthworks and one or two simple buildings. And this would be one of the larger posts along the borders. I imagine two or more smaller posts inbetween each of these, which are manned by just a handful of men (or maybe none at all?). Light cavalry patrols would regularly pass by them, possibly relieving the troops there.

I like the idea of shell roads; I had been thinking of simple dirt paths, worn into the ground through extensive patrolling.


Like the Veenkolonieën? Excellent idea!


Very true that But I was thinking along the lines that the Dutch have a stronger connection to the Doggerland than most others, resulting in them having an above average access to magic. Possibly two magic users in the force instead of one.

Also I strongly agree; it's not very Dutch to be wearing flashy robes and ornate head dresses to signify you're magical and special. Doe maar gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg! No; I was thinking of using older ladies in traditional regional dress (klederdracht), wielding discrete supporting powers.

I love the idea of an army unit clad in field grey, accompanied by a dour old woman in traditional garb, who will support them in the field with her scrying, clairvoyance, blessings and herbcraft.

It's called suspension of disbelief. And also the rule of cool

We're talking about a piece of land that rose up from the sea because the moon started acting weird, and it grants magical powers to some people too. Also; driving WW1 tanks and cars across hundreds of miles of freshly reclaimed land without roads. So getting over a guy wearing a gasmask and a shield is not that hard

@ zeppelfahrt; awesome work btw . YES INDEED.

I understand the rule of cool and i indulge in it myself, i just find it a bit strange the idea  of that when confronted with new technology and magic using nemesis, that one would retreat back to technology of 300 years earlier.  At least get that guy on horseback!  I would think the best tool to take on a sorcerer would be a sniper rifle and a scope or a French 75mm howitzer, even if the sword was magic.  Ranged weapons haven’t disappeared. something cool that is also plausible within the logic of the setting is even cooler.

[fred]

In the rules MGs and Field Guns are very effective. Cavalry can be effective in melee if they actually get in, before getting shot. Summoned creatures are very good in melee, not least because you can summon them close to the enemy - so perhaps the armoured sword wielders are perhaps more for defence of your sorcerers, rather than slogging forward to attack the enemy heavy weapons?


Also please do tell more about the ‘shell roads’ not a term I recognise - but sounds an interesting modelling opportunity.

We rather stopped playing AWT - a few bits of the rules didn’t quite work together, but all your enthusiasm is getting me interested again.

[Daeothar]

Good

These are shell roads, or as we say in Dutch; schelpenpaden:



Close up:



Basically they're sand paths with a layer of seashells on top. These get trodden in over time and make the surface quite hard and durable. Just don't walk on them barefoot...