Warband: Goalsystem Fantasy Skirmish [Official Game Title Changed - 7/7/14]

[fourcolorfigs]

Sounds good.  I'm looking forward to looking at the playtest rules.  Any preview of how magic will work?

Somewhat like powers in B&B.  Here's a sample spell:

Monte’s Stunning Slap
The spell creates an arcane hand that slaps its target and disrupts the flows of natural energy to him, inhibiting his movement or ability to act. 
Fate: 2
Nature: Arcane
Cost: 10 pts.
Effects: The caster spends a combat action and makes an opposed attribute vs. Resolve goal roll.  If the caster wins, the target is stunned (see Chapter 2: Actions and Combat for the effects of being stunned).  This spell may be used in close combat or at range, and normal ranged combat modifiers apply. 

[Nikdo]

Thanks.  I just picked up B&B this weekend but haven't had a chance to read through it yet.  Is there a limit to how many times a model can use a power/spell or can they fire at will?  I'm guessing that's what the Fate value is for?

[fourcolorfigs]

Fate is the cost to cast a spell.  Fate replenishes each round, and Priests and Wizards have 6 points.  BUT, that's also they're pool for adding dice to attack and defense, so they'll be short once the start throwing magic around.

Also, certain more powerful spells Exhaust fate, i.e., spend it up so it's gone until next game. For example: 

Mind Blast
This spell strikes out like psychic whip to stun their targets.
Fate: 2 (Exhausted)
Nature: Arcane
Cost: 10 pts.
Effects: This attack spell uses the Small cone template located in the back of the book in the Appendix of play aids. Center the small tip of the template on the caster’s base. Any models touched by the template must defend against the attack. The caster makes a single attribute check vs. the Resolve goal rolls of any targets touched. Any target beaten by 2+ goals is Stunned.

[fourcolorfigs]

Ok, trying to get a feel for what folks want in terms of character advancement.

Right now it's like B&B in that you have a table for Martial types, one for Magic types, and a General one.

There are 8 classes plus the retainer, so I could do specific tables for each of them.  It could be fun, but do folks want that level of detail in advancement?

[Too Bo Coo]

Ok, trying to get a feel for what folks want in terms of character advancement.

Right now it's like B&B in that you have a table for Martial types, one for Magic types, and a General one.

There are 8 classes plus the retainer, so I could do specific tables for each of them.  It could be fun, but do folks want that level of detail in advancement?

Yes.  Separate classes would be a good amount of detail without needing to be overwhelming in rpg elements.

[fourcolorfigs]

I'll think on separate tables for each Class some more. I'd like to hear what others think too.

I mad a ton of progress yesterday and earlier this morning.

Rules are getting close to being ready to test.

I'd like play some internal games first to make sure things are solid enough for wider release.

[Booboo]

I'm for class based progression trees.

Start as either Thief, spell caster, fighter,

end up as either:   Specialized warlock (elementals, necromancy, etc)
or   Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian Warlord
or Assassin, Thieves guild master, Politician

depending on the path you take

A forth low level progression chart would be cool too.  Start off as an apprentice(anytype) and work up to the one of the three other trees as they advance.  Would be good for the NPCs/ and henchmen etc.

[deathjester25]

I think a list for each of the 8 classes would be good. Maybe a basic one anyone could choose from would be good too.

[fourcolorfigs]

I'm for class based progression trees.

Start as either Thief, spell caster, fighter,

end up as either:   Specialized warlock (elementals, necromancy, etc)
or   Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian Warlord
or Assassin, Thieves guild master, Politician

depending on the path you take

A forth low level progression chart would be cool too.  Start off as an apprentice(anytype) and work up to the one of the three other trees as they advance.  Would be good for the NPCs/ and henchmen etc.

It would not quite work this way.  If I do it, each of the 8 Classes would get its own advance table.  No tree-tables, really. If I did this it would allow me to tailor character advancement to each Class. I'd likely do a basic one for Retainers too. 

This what I have right now:

======================================================================================================
The Benefits of Experience
Every five experience points a character earns allows him or her to increase some capability relevant to his or her role on the warband.  We call these character milestones Bumps.  Every time the character reaches a Bump, his or her player should roll on one of the tables below and note the result. 

Unless otherwise noted, a character may only roll a specific D6 result once, so if he rolls the same D6 number twice, he should roll again until he gets one he has not already rolled.  Bumps that appear on a chart multiple times may be rolled that number of times.  For example, if a chart lists +1 Vitality on a result of “1” or “2”, you could garner up to two additional Vitality from that chart. 

Bumps that grant points toward purchasing new special traits or spells may be “banked” for future use.  In this way a character can save earned points until he has enough to buy a new trait or spell of his choice.


Martial Bumps
These bumps work well for characters who earn their gold in the thick of combat.

Roll 1D6
1     +1D CCA
2     +1D RA
3     +1D CCD
4     +1D RD
5     +1D DR
6     +1D on KO Checks


Magical Bumps
These bumps are ideal for spell casters, and may only be rolled by characters with those Classes.

Roll 1D6
1     +1 Fate
2     +5 pts. Spell*
3     +5 pts. Spell*
4     +1D MA
5     +1D MD
6     +1D Arcane Post-Battle Checks

*This result may be rolled up to two times for a total of +10 pts.

General Bumps
Sometimes a character will want to develop along a track that is more general in nature, and these bumps fill that need. 

Roll 1D6
1   +1 Vitality
2   +1” Move
3   +5 pts. Special Trait*
4   +5 pts. Special Trait*
5   +1 Fate
6   +1D Post-Battle Checks**

* This result may be rolled up to two times for a total of +10 pts.

**  This result may be rolled up to two times but must be applied to different checks from the following list: Arcane, City, Mercenary, Resource, or Wilderness.

Non-Random Advancement
If players dislike the idea of random advancement, they could all agree to just select which bump they want from the tables. 
================================================================================


If I choose to expand it I would add tables specific to the 8 Classes and the Retainer:

Bard
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Priest
Ranger
Rogue
Wizard

Retainer

So 9 such tables.  This would allow me to stick in the sort of advancements that give cool little abilities we've come to expect from certain Classes--the ranger's Favored Enemy, for example. 

Some of this stuff you can already mimic on the front end with Special Traits, and the existing tables do allow for the slow acquisition of new Special traits.  It all comes down to how much detail I think people want, and that I want as well. 

We'll see.  I want to run a few campaign games to see what this current level of advancement feels like.

[BigB]

I prefer the route you are going.  This keeps it kiss simple and keeps people from hopping classes to cherry pick skills to min-max characters.  It's always been a problem for multi-class characters

[Too Bo Coo]

I like the 9 tables approach.  Once a person picks their class it's not like this is going to change over and over, so I cant see how it will impact the fluidity of the game.  Looking frward to more!

[fourcolorfigs]

I prefer the route you are going.  This keeps it kiss simple and keeps people from hopping classes to cherry pick skills to min-max characters.  It's always been a problem for multi-class characters

Just as an aside, there is no mechanism in the rules for multi-classing.  You buy your Class when you build the character, and that's it. He's done. No way to go back and add a second class.

Now you can use bumps to buy Special traits that will give you certain Class-like feature.  For example, a Fighter could use two bumps to get 10 pts. and buy the Turn or Rebuke Undead special trait. This would make him behave more like a Paladin. I like this feature as it creates little nuances in characters as they develop.

[Nikdo]

I tend to agree with BigB that the simple tables are adequate.  I had the opportunity to look through B&B a bit last night.  I think this is going to be a fun little game.

Scott - Have you considered doing a "basic" set for the core rules with basic character classes and options in the base game and then release a supplement with all of the "advanced" classes?  That would allow casual gamers to stick to the basic options for quick pick up games and also allow others to add in all of the cool options they are looking for.  Frankly, I would probably pick up the expanded options too but it might be a bit much for the casual gamer.  You could then add all the class-specific advancement tables in the supplement.  Just a thought.

[fourcolorfigs]

I tend to agree with BigB that the simple tables are adequate.  I had the opportunity to look through B&B a bit last night.  I think this is going to be a fun little game.

Scott - Have you considered doing a "basic" set for the core rules with basic character classes and options in the base game and then release a supplement with all of the "advanced" classes?  That would allow casual gamers to stick to the basic options for quick pick up games and also allow others to add in all of the cool options they are looking for.  Frankly, I would probably pick up the expanded options too but it might be a bit much for the casual gamer.  You could then add all the class-specific advancement tables in the supplement.  Just a thought.

I struggle with this myself. I want the single book to be as complete as possible, so I likely won't split it up, but I recognize that even what I have now might be too much for the casual gamer.

I could include an appendix with a lot of pre-built stuff; a pre-built warband or two. That might make it easier.

My games play best with 5 - 6 elements per side.  Characters are deep and you have a lot of options in design. That's how I like to play so it's what I tend to write.

After playing a number of SuperSystem 4th and B&B games the last few weeks, I wanted this game to play even faster and be more lethal.  I am trying to get the "mix" right.  So characters begin with 3 Vitality instead of 6.  Damage resistance is intentionally "behind" the damage capacity of weapons and spells. Fate cannot be used on damage resistance checks, and overall, you cannot use as much Fate on a given throw (only +2D now).  

And I think using Retainers will allow you to play games a lot closer to Mordheim.  They have only 2 Vitality and automatically fail KO checks.  So if you wanted to play a style where you had one or two important characters and more retainers, you could. You'd likely end up with 1 - 2 more models than someone who ran 4 "Classed-up" Adventurers.  

I have not built a full warband yet, so I am not sure on the suggested points for warbands. Likely 200 - 300 pts.  Maybe a 60 pt. cap on your leader.  

We'll see!

[deathjester25]

So can we expect to see most of the standard fantasy species includes or will we have to build most ourselves?  How about animals like dire wolves or giant rats? I assume those can be built as retainers