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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Belgian on November 29, 2011, 02:31:18 PM

Title: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Belgian on November 29, 2011, 02:31:18 PM
Hi, just received this news from Tony Reidy from defiance Games, his marines are now open for preordering!

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/shop#ecwid:category=1831024&inview=category1392304&mode=category&offset=0&sort=normal (http://defiancegames.com/index.php/shop#ecwid:category=1831024&inview=category1392304&mode=category&offset=0&sort=normal)

Please share your opinions as I think they could be useful for many settings both scifi as less scifi  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on November 29, 2011, 02:34:10 PM
yeah ill be getting them for sure,im just a bit aware of the Scale (1/56) i wonder how they scale up against my other Sci-fi Stuff  ???
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Belgian on November 29, 2011, 02:58:06 PM
I'm hoping to get them reviewed  ;) But it isn't sure yet.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on November 29, 2011, 03:13:44 PM
When I've seen an example of each of the troops assembled, with no renders in sight and without a stripy paint-scheme that masks all the detail (or lack of it), then I'll be able to form an opinion of them.

So far we have seen one heavily painted miniature, a bunch of rendered pix and a few concept sketches...not really a lot to go on.

From what has been shown, they look promising but we've been down this route with Wargames Factory and some of their finished products are...to be blunt...a little below what the renders promised.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Belgian on November 29, 2011, 03:15:53 PM
We need a review!  :) The quality of Wargames Factory varied a lot as the zulu warriors are quite good but other kits aren't.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: revford on November 29, 2011, 03:20:42 PM
The designs and artwork look nice, if the models are as good I may well pick a box.  Sounds like a huge supporting range is planned.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on November 29, 2011, 03:52:27 PM
Huzzah!  I can now buy a pig in a poke before the pig has even been born!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on November 29, 2011, 03:57:51 PM
More hype and still no product on show. Order at your own risk.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on November 29, 2011, 05:43:12 PM
When I see a photo of Tony holding a stack of these sprues in his hands for real I will believe it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Timotl on November 29, 2011, 06:29:07 PM
I agree with Matakishi. If these models are ready to sell, there should be some better pictures of them. Some sprue shots would be nice and some shots of the actual models NOT renders. I'm interested but won't buy something that the company can't be bothered to take decent pics of.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on November 29, 2011, 06:32:26 PM
I agree with Matakishi. If these models are ready to sell, there should be some better pictures of them. Some sprue shots would be nice and some shots of the actual models NOT renders. I'm interested but won't buy something that the company can't be bothered to take decent pics of.
I can only agree.
Duncan
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on November 29, 2011, 06:48:22 PM
I've ordered some - the one we've seen isn't painted wonderfully well and plastic is such a versatile material so even if they don't come out as good as the renders they can be improved quite easily I think.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Belgian on November 29, 2011, 07:58:09 PM
yeah ill be getting them for sure,im just a bit aware of the Scale (1/56) i wonder how they scale up against my other Sci-fi Stuff  ???

I found the following picture to show the scale of the USMC marines.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/IMG_4358.jpg (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/IMG_4358.jpg)

I haven't found any sprue pictures as my google fu failed!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Mr.J on November 29, 2011, 08:08:10 PM
I really like these. Won't be ordering any any time soon but I think they look great. Perfect for my Halo project if I get it back off the ground again.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Belgian on November 29, 2011, 08:15:31 PM
Yes they are! The former company is Wargames Factory and the miniatures with the great coat are called shock troopers if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on November 29, 2011, 08:43:07 PM
I found the following picture to show the scale of the USMC marines.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/IMG_4358.jpg (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/IMG_4358.jpg)

I haven't found any sprue pictures as my google fu failed!

ah thanks for that,looks like about the same Scale as the PI Stuff  :D Actually i dont expect too much for 29.90$ i will also keep an Eye on the Mantic Corp.Forces  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: snitcythedog on November 29, 2011, 10:27:22 PM
When I see a photo of Tony holding a stack of these sprues in his hands for real I will believe it.
Are we talking about the Tony from Wargames Factory?  As I turn on my guarded skepticism a lot. 
Snitchy sends.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on November 29, 2011, 11:03:27 PM
Anyone want to split a box?   I don't need/want 24...

Jake
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on November 29, 2011, 11:22:58 PM
Waiting on actual sprues and a USMC/Bugs deal.

or at least actual sprues.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Conquistador on November 30, 2011, 12:04:27 AM
i really need to see some completion of a SF force (Hv. Wpns. Specialist, support,) before I buy.  I know that GZG has some relatively (understated) complete forces if I want a SF army among others.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Comsquare on November 30, 2011, 12:25:11 AM
Anyone want to split a box?   I don't need/want 24...

Jake
Half a box would be enough for me too.
Where are you located?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on November 30, 2011, 01:06:54 AM
Are we talking about the Tony from Wargames Factory?  As I turn on my guarded skepticism a lot. 
Snitchy sends.

The one and the same.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on November 30, 2011, 01:27:59 AM
"The quality of Wargames Factory varied a lot as the zulu warriors are quite good..."

Oh, my.  That's setting the bar rather low.  I really need to get a blog entry posted describing my little adventure with those.

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: AKULA on November 30, 2011, 12:34:15 PM
More hype and still no product on show. Order at your own risk.

This.

Tony's previous track record doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on November 30, 2011, 01:16:08 PM
More hype and still no product on show. Order at your own risk.
It's still - I think - limited to this one thread here. At The Miniatures Page, it seems every other post in the scifi section is about the USMC Marines as of last week...

Anyway, assuming these get released, I'm still quite content to wait for the Chinese, or after them the Nordics. Possibly also the Vralk aliens, with the caveat that I don't (a) think I've ever seen a concept of them nor yet (b) necessarily expect to ever see them "in the flesh".
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on November 30, 2011, 01:26:28 PM
Anyway, assuming these get released, I'm still quite content to wait for the Chinese, or after them the Nordics. Possibly also the Vralk aliens, with the caveat that I don't (a) think I've ever seen a concept of them nor yet (b) necessarily expect to ever see them "in the flesh".

Well, i think that  the germys will be really interesting as well... but until i see some sprues i can't say anything! :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Belgian on November 30, 2011, 03:47:39 PM
Everything will depend on the sprue pictures but I can't wait to see the bugs and the free ruleset.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on December 01, 2011, 07:30:23 AM
I OTOH have almost zero interest in the ruleset. Bugs, possibly. I have a "bug" project I should really start working on one day so maybe those'll help with that...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on December 01, 2011, 10:32:59 AM
I was asked recently if I'd have any interest in painting some of the minis - of course i replied 'yes'. When they arrive i'll do a full review and wip on the blog.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on December 01, 2011, 10:36:00 AM
I was asked recently if I'd have any interest in painting some of the minis - of course i replied 'yes'. When they arrive i'll do a full review and wip on the blog.
Now that sounds great! Good to know there's a high quality painter been asked to do some paint jobs on them so we can see how they look.
Duncan
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on December 01, 2011, 10:44:02 AM
I was asked recently if I'd have any interest in painting some of the minis - of course i replied 'yes'. When they arrive i'll do a full review and wip on the blog.

Well, they did a great move! With your paints on, those minis will look great for shure!!!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on December 01, 2011, 01:13:38 PM
"With your paints on, those minis will look great for shure!!!"

Seconded.
Dwartist could brush color on a Lego set and I'd be like "Whoa...Wish I could do that."
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on December 01, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
"With your paints on, those minis will look great for shure!!!"

Seconded.
Dwartist could brush color on a Lego set and I'd like "Whoa...Wish I could do that."

Haha - got to give that a try!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on December 03, 2011, 12:20:57 PM
If anyone in the US (I'm near Savannah, GA) wants to split a box, let me know.

Jake
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on December 03, 2011, 01:51:33 PM
are these the guys that left the company that does the great coat troopers?

That's certainly one way to put it.   ::)

I'm more interested in the bugs myself - more versatile for conversion to fantasy/pulp/supers/horror gaming, and scale on them just won't matter.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Meier_Elf_Fanatic on December 03, 2011, 08:34:37 PM
Awwww I'll have $99 worth... s'only a pocket money risk at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on December 04, 2011, 10:51:58 PM
I ordered a box the first day the announced them.  I figure it's a bit of a risky move but not enough money to put me out if something goes wrong.  I am super excited about where the range looks to be going.  A lot of 28mm companies seem to be moving stylistically in the same direction as a lot of established 15mm companies.  More hard sci-fi and less retro or fantasy look.  It all has it's place but GW has made me sick of retrograd/gothic tech. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Faust23 on December 06, 2011, 06:54:44 AM
It all has it's place but GW has made me sick of retrograd/gothic tech. 

Amen Brother! 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on December 25, 2011, 11:16:00 PM
Hei! Sorry for reviving the post but... any news? nobody released any picture? =)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ATP Painting Studio on December 26, 2011, 01:32:22 AM
Well, they had me at 'Female Marines' as I have been looking for troopers to make an all-female force from a matriarchal world for a long time.

And no, Shadowforge aren't acceptable.  :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on December 26, 2011, 10:22:47 AM
I'll pass this, or pick some spare ones from anyone that bought to many. My last attempt with their previous company left my sobbing and showering for three hours...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on December 26, 2011, 03:04:37 PM
There are probably no pictures because there is no product yet.  I really would like to be proven wrong but I doubt we'll see sprue pics or even an injection moulded, plastic marine for a long while yet.

I DARE Defiance to prove me wrong. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Homebrew Dave on December 26, 2011, 04:40:52 PM
With the "Prometheus" movie coming out, I'll probably invest in these.  I also like the hard sci-fi direction alot of products are going lately.  Being in the military, it's cool the weapons and technology alot of games and minis use kind of parallel things we still use.

I wish I could light up some bugs in real life with a belt-fed Mk-19 grenade launcher or a 249 SAW.  I imagine two  cockroaches fighting over a cheeseball on my kitchen floor and then my wife and I unleash withering firepower from across the house decimating everything as waves of gigantic glimmering roaches pour into our respective fire sectors.

Who needs Orkin these days?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on December 26, 2011, 08:08:02 PM
There are probably no pictures because there is no product yet.  I really would like to be proven wrong but I doubt we'll see sprue pics or even an injection moulded, plastic marine for a long while yet.

I DARE Defiance to prove me wrong. 


i don't like to do that, but i agree. The trust is very important in this field, and i'm also starting to dubitate about the defiance policy...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on December 27, 2011, 07:44:07 AM
Sadly, miniature business is yet one more area of life where it pays to be skeptical.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on December 28, 2011, 11:46:36 AM
There are probably no pictures because there is no product yet.  I really would like to be proven wrong but I doubt we'll see sprue pics or even an injection moulded, plastic marine for a long while yet.

I DARE Defiance to prove me wrong. 


Different company...same old issues...  :?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on December 28, 2011, 12:52:38 PM
Looks like they are funding the production on pre orders.


uhm, i thought they allready raised enough Cash with their Kickstarter Fundraiser/Pledge Thingie  ???
very ominous  :-X
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on December 28, 2011, 11:12:00 PM
they arn't due out until sometime in January so until it's Febuary I'm not going to start complaining and I've got money on it already. :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on January 01, 2012, 12:59:47 PM
Renders of heads here (boy, is that helmet pixellated!):
http://ttfix.blogspot.com/2011/12/defiance-games-alien-war-head-previews.html (http://ttfix.blogspot.com/2011/12/defiance-games-alien-war-head-previews.html)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ATP Painting Studio on January 01, 2012, 07:31:11 PM
 :o Female heads in field caps! JOYGASM
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on January 01, 2012, 09:35:06 PM
:o Female heads in field caps! JOYGASM

I like mine in Kevlar   ;)

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/CptJake_Minis/PA170179.jpg)

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/CptJake_Minis/PA170174.jpg)

Of course she is Army, not one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children.  Tomorrow is our 20th anniversary. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on January 01, 2012, 10:57:04 PM
Renders of heads here (boy, is that helmet pixellated!):
http://ttfix.blogspot.com/2011/12/defiance-games-alien-war-head-previews.html (http://ttfix.blogspot.com/2011/12/defiance-games-alien-war-head-previews.html)

Actually...I think it's the shape.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on January 02, 2012, 08:37:20 AM
Actually...I think it's the shape.

Yes, but the shape was created with pixels.  I mean to say, it's a pixellated sculpt rather than a pixellated render.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ATP Painting Studio on January 02, 2012, 09:33:21 AM
Helmets are practical, field caps are cool. ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on January 02, 2012, 09:48:05 AM
I mean to say, it's a pixellated sculpt rather than a pixellated render.
Maybe it's a stealth helmet.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on February 16, 2012, 12:09:50 PM
According to DG, their "toolmaker has 'guaranteed' to have a test shot" today so anyone (even mildly) excited about this might want to keep an eye on their site...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on February 16, 2012, 01:02:24 PM
I'm not excited (not even mildly) but everytime I see those Marines I see some uses for them  ;) But I'm not a believer in pre-orders  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on February 17, 2012, 10:02:34 AM
interesting! =)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on February 17, 2012, 02:05:36 PM
So no sprues, as promised, eh?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on February 17, 2012, 11:28:42 PM
They're now "delayed" until March 5th....
 :?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 17, 2012, 11:36:01 PM
yawn...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: manatic on February 18, 2012, 12:46:03 AM
yawn...

This.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 18, 2012, 01:00:40 AM
So no sprues, as promised, eh?

But we've seen the moulds!  ;)

The unfinished moulds that is. Perhaps Defiance should have kept their powder dry until things were a bit more definate?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 18, 2012, 01:48:09 AM
Looks like the Bugs will be up for Pre Order soon aswell,found a very promising Teaser Pic
http://www.san-ai-usa.com/special/images/resin_l.jpg (http://www.san-ai-usa.com/special/images/resin_l.jpg)

go Defiance,go  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on February 18, 2012, 01:51:33 AM
mmm. Teasing is good, but overteasing is boring. C'mon, defiance! I'm really positive on those pieces, but i'm starting to losing interest, after... well, 4 months? You should just announce them when ready!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: manatic on February 18, 2012, 08:20:19 AM
mmm. Teasing is good, but overteasing is boring. C'mon, defiance! I'm really positive on those pieces, but i'm starting to losing interest, after... well, 4 months? You should just announce them when ready!

I guess that if they did, they wouldn't have the pre-order payments to actually finance the operation.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on February 18, 2012, 09:28:53 AM
There are probably no pictures because there is no product yet.  I really would like to be proven wrong but I doubt we'll see sprue pics or even an injection moulded, plastic marine for a long while yet.

I DARE Defiance to prove me wrong. 

I stand by what I said in December...and it still applies...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on February 18, 2012, 12:12:18 PM
I love how their webstore lists the marines as

Quote
SKU  DFG001
In stock
$29.95

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/shop#ecwid:category=1831024&mode=product&product=7831674

That isn't deceptive at all.... ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 18, 2012, 12:38:22 PM
I think it's just sad. Delusional idiots attempting to con gullible idiots out of their money for imaginary figures that, if they ever do appear, always look like shit despite having been hyped to the heavens.
The hype is used to generate money from the vapourware to (hopefully) fund the eventual production of the miniatures which is disingenuous at best, criminal at worst.
When everything goes tits up it will be someone else's fault, not Tony's of course, as before.
The latest delays are the fault of an unnamed, unattributable, source from 'the toolmakers' who admits all in a public letter *cough* bollocks *cough*.
Soon the sock puppets will appear all over the internet as Tony has conversations with himself in an attempt to bolster his blamelessness and reassure his clamouring fans.

Here's an idea Tony, how about, instead of:
Have idea, Announce idea as available product, collect money, lie about why product isn't shipping.
Why don't you try:
Make figures, Announce figures, Sell figures.
Like everybody else manages to.

Pricks.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on February 18, 2012, 01:35:50 PM
Why don't you try:
Make figures, Announce figures, Sell figures.
Like everybody else manages to.

hum, that should work! =) Cool!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on February 18, 2012, 02:22:36 PM
There you go, Paul... thinking again.



Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: commissarmoody on February 19, 2012, 03:43:06 AM
I tell you one, thing, I fell for it, and ordered two boxes. I will most likely get rid of them once/if they ever show up. Because I don't see these guys coming threw. And don't need another set of relatively useless figs sitting around in my to paint bin.
I am not to happy about it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 19, 2012, 09:25:18 AM
Lol Scurv. I get pissed about lots of things but don't usually bother making it public :)
These people really get to me though because I know many, many people involved with our hobby who work hard to produce figures, rules, scenery etc and just get on and do it. They don't spend all their time bigging themselves up whilst letting people down/ripping people off, they just do their thing.
I wish Tony would cut the bullshit and either make his figures or shut up and piss off.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2012, 01:30:22 PM
I'm not convinced that Tony and Defiance are pulling a con job. I think it's more likely that a lack of experience and professionalism has seen them come unstuck. I'd have thought they'd have learned these lessons from the first time round but clearly they haven't.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Plynkes on February 19, 2012, 01:33:15 PM
I dont think I have ever seen Matakishi pissed at something before. Thats pretty telling right there.

You must have not been here at the height of the Wargames Factory rants then, Scurvy. My ears are still ringing.  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ramshackle_Curtis on February 21, 2012, 05:34:51 PM
If only the models looked like the designs. The concept sketches are really nice.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 21, 2012, 08:38:13 PM
If only the models looked like the designs. The concept sketches are really nice.

dont worry,the final Product will be outstanding,stellar,super detailed imho the best looking Minis ever  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: MajorTalon on February 22, 2012, 11:48:35 PM
So... are these coming out? I actually think they would look good with a headswap, and maybe a weapon change.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Nick on February 23, 2012, 05:51:00 AM
On a related note are the current owners/management  for WGF the same ones that crippled Bastion who produce the Exillis game?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on February 23, 2012, 06:53:03 AM
So... are these coming out?
Well, not quite yet it seems - here's the latest:
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/a-message-from-our-toolmaker
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on February 23, 2012, 07:58:28 AM
You know we should run a pool. One mini to get in and the closest pick to the actual release day of these vaporfigs wins the entire pool of minis. Hey come on, at least this way someone somewhere gets some actual miniatures thanks to defiance games.

I am willing to throw the entire foundry B Team in the betting pool and my guess is march 28th 2012.

Oh and the first person to pick never is the person with that in the pool and all subsequent 'nevers' dont count.
Sounds a fun idea. I'll have a look in the lead horde and see what I've got.
Dunca
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Old Goat on February 23, 2012, 08:11:42 AM
Slight tangent...Is it me or do the 'Bugs' faces look more than a little like a ladies front bottom?  But with eyes and teeth...

Now I'm no Freud but...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: manatic on February 23, 2012, 09:00:06 AM
Next time I go down on a chick all I am gonna see is that horrid grey face staring back at me. Not happy with your word pictures man, not happy at all. My mind feels unclean and violated now!

You have been rendered impure! *ba-dum-tchhh*
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 23, 2012, 09:11:27 AM
You know we should run a pool. One mini to get in and the closest pick to the actual release day of these vaporfigs wins the entire pool of minis. Hey come on, at least this way someone somewhere gets some actual miniatures thanks to defiance games.

I am willing to throw the entire foundry B Team in the betting pool and my guess is march 28th 2012.

 lol i will throw in a nib Hasselfree Hazmat Team-My Guess is May 22th 2012
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Old Goat on February 23, 2012, 09:33:40 AM
unless the lady in question has fangs down there you'll be fine.
 ;)
Never mind me old boy...nothing to see here...move along.

My bid is sometime around May 14th 2012, I will throw the Salute Robot and lady Vignette from 2010 into the ring.

My question would be do we need another poorly executed set of near future plastic figures, with Aliens designed by a Gynaecologist with an Oedipus complex.  Probably not.

Best, Goat.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on February 23, 2012, 10:15:24 AM
Well, not quite yet it seems - here's the latest:
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/a-message-from-our-toolmaker

Obviously you must be mistaken.

Go to their web store and in BIG BOLD LETTERS they proudly claim:

The Few...The Proud...Are HERE! 

and when you click on the marines you find the codes listed as In Stock

Surely that would be the case if they were not actually available and shipping to customers?!?!

 :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 23, 2012, 02:06:15 PM
I'll put up the defiance marines I've got - oh bugger, hang on a minute  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on February 24, 2012, 10:47:32 AM
I can chuck in some Foundry Ghurkas from one of the wars in the 19th centuary :)
But I guess that all the bets are off? :(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on February 24, 2012, 12:16:50 PM
But I guess that all the bets are off? :(
How so? Did the Marines suddenly become available - I mean "available" without a postifx "for preorder"?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 24, 2012, 12:56:51 PM
Apart from that I am an Aussie and we will bet on anything anytime anywhere as we are per capita the most gambeling mad nation on earth. (I have seen over $2000 riding on how long it would take a fly to drown in a blokes beer.)

So stump up a fig you dont want Alien and join the fun. Dont forget the sooner you bet the better chance you have of getting the date you want.



Ok, I've a selection of 40K figures I won't use, what I'll do is offer the winner a selection from which to choose which one they want.

As for a date, are we talking the exact date a cast figure is shown, or the day someone actually manages to buy one - we need to be clear on this ;-)  -oh, and what dates are taken?

regards the bet I call BULLCRAP - there is no way an Aussie would leave his beer undrunk long enough for a fly to drown in it  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on February 24, 2012, 02:37:53 PM
He would if it was Southwark, possibly the worst beer in existence. Of course I'm not sure that even a south Australian fly would choose to drown in the stuff.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 24, 2012, 05:10:31 PM
I'll offer up a gold plated Matakishi to the lucky winner.
I don't have any idea when these vapour marines will be available, nor do I care, but anyone who can outguess this train wreck of a 'miniatures company' deserves to win something.

If I had to bet I'd bet they won't be worth the wait :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on February 24, 2012, 05:11:24 PM
Then my bet is on the 4th of July. But I'll throw in a full Early War British command squad ,minus two fellas, from Renegade instead.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on February 24, 2012, 07:33:14 PM
I've got a couple banana wars US Marines by Brigade I'll put in the hat.  Of course, the Defiance figs will be available on April 1, 2012.  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on February 25, 2012, 11:04:02 PM
Good news folks.  They posted pictures of the new space bugs!  Pretty soon these will probably be available for pre-order, and listed as In Stock, so you can order them, and have them not delivered in time to fight your undelivered marines!


http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2012/02/24/55510/

Jake
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on February 26, 2012, 12:38:19 AM
There's an old saying that one should never throw good money after bad.

Until things change, I think this adage holds here.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on February 27, 2012, 06:56:28 AM
Right up there with Platycleis affinis...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/10/largest-testicles-species-bush-cricket

Oh and
http://www.beastsofwar.com/sci-fi-wargaming/defiance-games-bugs-shape/
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 28, 2012, 09:51:10 AM
englishman has fly land in beer says "I say this just won't do" and pushes beer to one side

Irishman has fly land in beer fishes fly out and says "no need to wast a good drop" and drinks beer

Scotsman has fly land in beer. Scotsman grabs fly and starts wringing its neck screaming "Spit tha beer oot ye theivin bugger!"

so true........ lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 28, 2012, 09:53:38 AM
do we have a list of names and their guess on a date yet? I don't want to go for a date already taken (unless I am dating a woman who has a date with another woman and invites me along and - well,  ;D)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 28, 2012, 03:49:16 PM
Scurv can compile a list :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on February 28, 2012, 04:11:31 PM
While I'm sure I could contribute something to the pot, I think the best remedy for this guy is to languish away in self-pitying obscurity.

Like they say - "Don't go away mad. Just go away."
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on February 28, 2012, 06:57:00 PM
Defiance just posted artwork for their USMC heavy mg.  Still no real minis...just fluff and art.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on February 28, 2012, 08:07:02 PM
Here's my summary so far (What? I can be a little compulsive):

Scurv: March 28th
DoctorPete: April 1st
Old Goat: May 14th
Dr Falkenhayn: May 22nd
Silversixx: July 4th

And we've got a prize from Matakishi but no bet, and an expression of interest from aliensurfer but no date.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 28, 2012, 08:12:24 PM
Good work James, very thorough!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: therepoman on February 29, 2012, 12:23:58 AM
englishman has fly land in beer says "I say this just won't do" and pushes beer to one side

Irishman has fly land in beer fishes fly out and says "no need to wast a good drop" and drinks beer

Scotsman has fly land in beer. Scotsman grabs fly and starts wringing its neck screaming "Spit tha beer oot ye theivin bugger!"

I found this post much more amusing than I probably should have.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Cadet13 on February 29, 2012, 12:43:18 AM
I've got a handful of random Black Tree World War Two minis I'll add to the pot. The Defiance Marines will become available June 3rd, just in time for my birthday!  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on February 29, 2012, 10:20:08 AM
And I'll split the difference and take April 15th as my date. I will add a pair of Kryomek Cyclos (or a pair of weird-looking elves, if fantasy's your thing) and a random draw from my 'what the heck is this' figures bin to the pool.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 29, 2012, 12:40:50 PM
out of curiosity, how are we going to determine said date of release - are we going to base it on them showing us the figures, someone buying them and actually getting them or what - given how things are going it could be pain in the arse, as the blooming things are listed as in stock on their website. shall we perhaps pick one retailer we all know of, that stocks these, and the day they give a press release (probably via TMP) as to having them in store, that's the winning date? I would suggest somewhere over in the states as the good ol' boys are the most likely peope to buy them  ;)  (my date hinges on knowing how we're going to judge it - as at the moment I am torn between something will be available soon, to, we've taken your money and run and thus a date is irrelevant  :D)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 29, 2012, 12:49:26 PM
I'm inclined to wait until someone posts a picture of a real customer, or retailer, holding real sprues to acknowledge the figures have shipped. Once this momentous occurrence comes to pass we can sort out the actual date it happened.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on February 29, 2012, 01:04:35 PM
I think we should nominate somebody from here who has preordered (I think there were one or two) to act in the role of an arbitrator and count the product's "shipped" date as the official date of release. Obviously this system is hardly scientifically tenable (since there may be significant variation on when preorders get send out) but it's better than trusting the word on a website.

Obviously the arbitrator cannot participate in the competition but he gets to be the hero of the hour :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on February 29, 2012, 01:26:56 PM
I think we should nominate somebody from here who has preordered (I think there were one or two) to act in the role of an arbitrator and count the product's "shipped" date as the official date of release. Obviously this system is hardly scientifically tenable (since there may be significant variation on when preorders get send out) but it's better than trusting the word on a website.

Obviously the arbitrator cannot participate in the competition but he gets to be the hero of the hour :P
That sounds the best solution.
Duncan
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 29, 2012, 01:32:42 PM
Ok, I'll take a stab at June 4th. (was going to say the 2nd but that is a saturday)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on February 29, 2012, 01:51:44 PM
Surely with this many concepts coming out in cannot be that long...
http://www.beastsofwar.com/sci-fi-wargaming/defiance-games-lock-loads-weapon-concepts/
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 29, 2012, 02:00:35 PM
depends on how many morons pre-ordered I guess  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 29, 2012, 02:18:33 PM
Nominating a LAFer is a good idea let's go with that.
The excitement builds...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: AKULA on February 29, 2012, 02:29:06 PM
Apparently your card has been marked Paul - you are officially a "hater"

 lol

https://www.facebook.com/#!/DefianceGames

Check out the thread started by Frank Frey on Monday.

But its ok folks because all the negative stuff is from the nasty Frothers folk....

When will people work out that its "gamers" making these comments not "Frothers"/"LAF'ers"/"TMP'ers"....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 29, 2012, 03:15:07 PM
yes, I saw :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on February 29, 2012, 04:37:54 PM
Apparently your card has been marked Paul - you are officially a "hater"

 lol

https://www.facebook.com/#!/DefianceGames

Check out the thread started by Frank Frey on Monday.

But its ok folks because all the negative stuff is from the nasty Frothers folk....

When will people work out that its "gamers" making these comments not "Frothers"/"LAF'ers"/"TMP'ers"....


strangely enough, despite the usual suspects on TMP, even paying TMP members are questioning Tony now.....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Plynkes on February 29, 2012, 05:16:54 PM
Can't you look at stuff on Facebook without bloody joining it? It keeps asking me to log in whenever I click on anything.

Fuck that shit.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on February 29, 2012, 05:17:22 PM
strangely enough, despite the usual suspects on TMP, even paying TMP members are questioning Tony now.....

Hey, I'm a paying TMP member, and I've posted a couple comments on the relevant thread on the Defiance forums, pointing out the fact they list them as In Stock.  

I did seem to get ignored though.   ;)

By the way, I was one of the dumb asses who pre-ordered via the Warstore.

Got my refund for the cancelation today.   :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on February 29, 2012, 05:23:57 PM
They have to segregate the "haters" because people are catching on and not liking it.
As though it wasn't obvious from the get-go that they were just repeating the same bad business model that lost them WF.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 29, 2012, 05:59:32 PM
By the way, I was one of the dumb asses who pre-ordered via the Warstore.
Got my refund for the cancelation today.   :D

Good for the Warstore's customer satisfaction rating, bad for their cash flow.
I bet you'd rather have had the figures though, on time, as promised?

Three months on and they still don't exist except in the Defiance web store where they're still listed as in stock*

*this last is Frothers' inspired hatred of course, not just a statement of verifiable fact  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Frank Frey on February 29, 2012, 07:33:32 PM
Greetings,

Well it's time to post on here and take whatever lumps are coming to me. 
First of all allow to explain that I am one of the morons that indeed pre-pay. I've always had success with that in the past and didn't see any reason not to in this case.
I must admit the the rhetoric did indeed take me aback. Not quite the level of some discussions I've been in on politics or religion. My curiosity was genuine. So, I started that thread on Facebook.
So my questions still stands. Matakishi, what exactly happened between you and Tony Reidy?
I've read the threads on TMP. "Train Wreck" is rather generous.
As far as it being nothing but those Evil Frothers then I guess that would include me as well as I am a member. I'm also a Paid Member of the Miniatures Page but above all else I am a gamer.
Now I understand a lot of what has been said on this forum. BTW, I talked to a friend of mine who is a successful business  about Defiance Games. Her first responce was "You didn't send them any money did you?" When I answered yes her next remark was "Bad idea". She then went on to say that if they are "cashing the checks" as it were with no product ready to go that either means that they are undercapitalized which is a really bad business model or that they are running a scam. Since I know one of the folks involved with Defiance Games, I thinking the former.
Anyway if my inquiries have offended anyone well I'm not certain what to say about that.
Finally, I've had dealings with Akula in the past. I've found him to be an honest and honorable gentleman so when he talks I tend to listen rather closely.
Anyway, thank you for reading this.
Frank Frey
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 29, 2012, 08:30:06 PM
Hi Frank.
Nothing happened between me and Tony.
If you disagree with anything I've written about Defiance games please point out where I'm wrong. They have no product, they're not going to get any anytime soon and they're scamming people out of preorder money in a 'clever' bid to raise funds for the tooling.
They're doing this at the top of their voices too, every games news site has a new Defiance 'story' every other day, each with less actual news content than the last one. The only real news would be 'the Marines have shipped to retailers and customers' but that one never appears.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to put up or shut up. Personally I don't care which they do so long as they choose one before we all drown in the bullshit.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on February 29, 2012, 09:10:44 PM
Not all bad press, Paul:

Quote
Giacomo Pantalone maybe he is referring to Matashiki. He is one of the most respectful mebers of LAF, and he is not hte only one having issues with tony. I don't have anything about him (tony), but i trust the Matashiki's view, so i'm not very positive about all that.
Beside of that, i'm waiting for the miniatures. if they are good, i'll maybe buy some.

I just read a date of the 5th of March for the plastics to arrive.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on February 29, 2012, 09:18:08 PM
If you want March 5th as your date you need to offer a figure into the prize pot.
(I won't penalise you for your insider information)  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on February 29, 2012, 09:22:39 PM
Okay, I have one of the TFL Hugh Jarce figures that says March 5th WON'T be the date!

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Hrothgar on February 29, 2012, 09:28:39 PM
I used to be a big supporter of Tony and Howard when they were first getting Wargames Factory off the ground, enough so that I was sometimes called a "fanboy" on TMP (which I don't think was quite warrented  :D :D :D ). When they actually did produce figures, I tended to like them for the most part.

However, after seeing Tony's business practices in action for a long enough period of time, I became sickened of the whole business. The shenanigans I am seeing in this new incarnation of Defiance Games doesn't just seem like more of the same, in some ways it seems worse. It is unbelievable that they are taking money for a product that we can only assume does not exist yet. It would be nice to be proven wrong, but I doubt that will happen. In the meantime, these new releases of artwork, short fiction, and 3-up prototypes all take on a somewhat sinister tone to me because they could easily be interpreted as just another means of getting people to pour money into the project to get it off the ground, rather than a real expression of where the business is going.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Frank Frey on February 29, 2012, 09:33:19 PM
Matakishi,

Thank you for your gracious answer. You do indeed live up to your "press". :)  
March 5th is also the deadline for me. If I don't see any sign of real progress like sprues in hand then I'm going to cancel my pre order and ask for a refund.  I may order again once there is actual product.
You know you would think that after the Wargames Factory debacle that Defiance Games would've learned its lesson. If it were me then all I would been posting is the "Coming Soon" type of hype. Then as the situation with the vendor got clearer, I would start narrowing down...like "Coming this Spring" or even "Projected Release Date". That way you have at least some wiggle room.
FYI I sent in my pre-payment on January 1st (New Years Present to myself  :D) since an assured release date of January 16th had been promised. Last time I'll make that mistake.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Derek H on February 29, 2012, 09:36:14 PM
It is unbelievable that they are taking money for a product that we can only assume does not exist yet. It would be nice to be proven wrong, but I doubt that will happen. In the meantime, these new releases of artwork, short fiction, and 3-up prototypes all take on a somewhat sinister tone to me because they could easily be interpreted as just another means of getting people to pour money into the project to get it off the ground, rather than a real expression of where the business is going.

They're quite open about the fact that the product doesn't exist yet.  

Quote
"The Marines continue to move along in tooling - we received a message from the toolmaker that he was cutting runners (i.e. the place where the plastic flows to get to the parts) and the ejector pin holes (the bits that push the injected frame off the mold) - so far so good."

See http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/marine-and-bug-updates-release-plans (http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/marine-and-bug-updates-release-plans)



Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on February 29, 2012, 09:52:09 PM
They're quite open about the fact that the product doesn't exist yet.  

See http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/marine-and-bug-updates-release-plans (http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/marine-and-bug-updates-release-plans)





Not to be argumentitive, but the confusion stems from the fact that the product is (or at least was) listed as IN STOCK.  It cannot both be in stock and non-existant.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: twrchtrwyth on February 29, 2012, 10:21:29 PM
@Derek, who were you talking about on the Facebook thread?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on February 29, 2012, 10:52:33 PM
.....SNIP......
However, after seeing Tony's business practices in action for a long enough period of time, I became sickened of the whole business. The shenanigans I am seeing in this new incarnation of Defiance Games doesn't just seem like more of the same, in some ways it seems worse. It is unbelievable that they are taking money for a product that we can only assume does not exist yet.
....SNIP.....

Indeed. I was one of those badly caught by this "lack of business acumen and professionalism"  first time round and eventually bailed out by the supposed Chinese culprits. Then threatened with prosecution for libel by a member of the Defiance fteam for publicly predicting this is exactly what would happen again.

Look at the recent track record (product releases) of the 2 parts of the old WF, one side has multiple new releases in previous and totally new ranges, the other has...........your money? :-X

There is an old saying that goes: Trick me once, shame on you, Trick me twice shame on me.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on February 29, 2012, 11:12:35 PM
There is an old saying that goes: Trick me once, shame on you, Trick me twice shame on me.

:)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 29, 2012, 11:39:20 PM

There is an old saying that goes: Trick me once, shame on you, Trick me twice shame on me.

sorry Rob but you got that all wrong  lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMKkQx_dTC4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMKkQx_dTC4)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 01, 2012, 12:59:23 AM
 lol
I was thinking exactly the same.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 01, 2012, 07:26:35 AM
They're quite open about the fact that the product doesn't exist yet.
I'm with supervike here. That "open message" was posted two days ago. Previously you had to go pretty long way into their shop system before to be informed that you are in fact placing a preorder. Now I'm sure it's not illegal to act in such a way but it doesn't scream openess to me.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 01, 2012, 10:40:21 AM
I'm with supervike here. That "open message" was posted two days ago. Previously you had to go pretty long way into their shop system before to be informed that you are in fact placing a preorder. Now I'm sure it's not illegal to act in such a way but it doesn't scream openess to me.

No chit.   If I go to a web page and see big bold taxt stating The Few The Proud ARE HERE and then click on the product and the status is In Stock, I would think I had a reasonable expectation that the product was available for purchase and would be delivered. 

I also expect that if In Stock does not mean in stock, and HERE doesn't mean here, that when I bring the issue up with the company (and I have) that the company corrects itself and changes the In Stock status.

Then again, I may not be the most reasonable man.   ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 01, 2012, 12:21:40 PM
If I go to a web page and see big bold taxt stating The Few The Proud ARE HERE and then click on the product and the status is In Stock, I would think I had a reasonable expectation that the product was available for purchase and would be delivered
Strictly speaking they are available for purchase - after all you are allowed to place an order for them and even, I believe, will get billed for it... It's just the delivery that is pending but then again they don't promise a delivery date... :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 01, 2012, 12:42:14 PM
apologies to those I labelled as morons for pre-ordering, it was mroe aimed at those who gush over these, the planned stuff and did the same with WF. Obviously people here are of a much higher calibre and are not morons.  :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 01, 2012, 12:47:12 PM
Strictly speaking they are available for purchase - after all you are allowed to place an order for them and even, I believe, will get billed for it... It's just the delivery that is pending but then again they don't promise a delivery date... :P

In Stock is a lie.  Flat out.  They are not even produced.   
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 01, 2012, 12:48:18 PM
apologies to those I labelled as morons for pre-ordering, it was mroe aimed at those who gush over these, the planned stuff and did the same with WF. Obviously people here are of a much higher calibre and are not morons.  :)

Hey, I can be quite the moron.   

Ask my kids and wife if you don't want to accept my word for it.   ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 01, 2012, 01:10:10 PM
In Stock is a lie.  Flat out.  They are not even produced
Well yes, that would be one and I do think I've seen it myself... However there is no mention of them being in stock on the site now that I can see. But you still need to go down to the individual item description to see that it's in fact "PRE-ORDER! Ships late February!"

I assume this last is subject to change, unless anyone has received a shipping notice yet..?

BTW I do believe dwartist (AKA "dwartist UNA" on the bygone Rackham forum AFAIK) is a member here and has a still standing preorder. Might he act as the arbitrator in this little contest thingy we are having?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 01, 2012, 01:20:39 PM
Well yes, that would be one and I do think I've seen it myself... However there is no mention of them being in stock on the site now that I can see. But you still need to go down to the individual item description to see that it's in fact "PRE-ORDER! Ships late February!"

I assume this last is subject to change, unless anyone has received a shipping notice yet..?

BTW I do believe dwartist (AKA "dwartist UNA" on the bygone Rackham forum AFAIK) is a member here and has a still standing preorder. Might he act as the arbitrator in this little contect we are having?

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/shop#ecwid:category=1831024&mode=product&product=7831674


Quote
SKU  DFG001
In stock
$29.95

Pretty fricking clearly marked as In Stock right this minute.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 01, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
Hey, I can be quite the moron.   

Ask my kids and wife if you don't want to accept my word for it.   ;)

a better calibre of moron then  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on March 01, 2012, 01:34:16 PM
Well yes, that would be one and I do think I've seen it myself... However there is no mention of them being in stock on the site now that I can see. But you still need to go down to the individual item description to see that it's in fact "PRE-ORDER! Ships late February!"
Late february? It's the start of march and still no finished frames to show, not even a finished mold.

They ought to know that wargamers are typically nerds (and we're proud of it) and most nerds value honesty pretty high and this whole story just tastes of dishonesty. Please just be straight and say how it is, a lot of people would value being told what the story really is and might cough up bucks to get a project going if they know what's involved from the start and like the idea (which seems to be the case here).
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 01, 2012, 01:51:55 PM
Well yes, that would be one and I do think I've seen it myself... However there is no mention of them being in stock on the site now that I can see. But you still need to go down to the individual item description to see that it's in fact "PRE-ORDER! Ships late February!"

I assume this last is subject to change, unless anyone has received a shipping notice yet..?

BTW I do believe dwartist (AKA "dwartist UNA" on the bygone Rackham forum AFAIK) is a member here and has a still standing preorder. Might he act as the arbitrator in this little contest thingy we are having?

Just taken using Snagit:

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/CptJake_Minis/SnagIt.jpg)

And it has shown that for weeks.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on March 01, 2012, 02:11:11 PM
We are our own worst enemies.

We see a nice picture, get drawn in and immediately want one.

All the warning signs were there from the word go but we all wanted to believe that the whole WGF mess couldn't happen again...

Some of us were trusting enough to place advanced orders in the hope that there was going to be a product on time this time.

You would have thought that all us hobby obsessives would be once bitten, twice shy...

We fell into the trap and cover up our naiavity by arguing about the ins and outs of the deception.

It really doesn't matter about why, how or when... this whole business reeks of dishonesty and deception (whether or not that was the original intention of the company). The only thing that will change that will be the arrival of nicely boxed plastic miniatures (at whatever quality that are made to)...until then, no matter how many renders turn up or promises get made, we just have to make sure we all keep hold of our money until an actual product is on sale and there is physical proof that this company is capable of producing a viable product at all.

It is easy to call people morons for placing an advance order but not everyone was aware of previous problems or business practices...we are all very trusting, after all.

I have put my money into Kickstarter projects and am awaiting the fruits of those labours... I just hope that this debacle doesn't put people off supporting these little ventures because there have been some excellent results from the Kickstarter thing.

Faith is very easily shattered and very difficult to resurrect.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 01, 2012, 02:24:57 PM
Ah quite, the website is language sensitive so it doesn't say "in stock" for me. To be exact, it says "hintatiedot" which is Finnish for "pricing", not "in stock" which would be "varastossa", "saatavilla" or something of that sort :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on March 01, 2012, 03:12:06 PM
What's Finnish for 'sketchy'?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Comsquare on March 01, 2012, 03:41:18 PM
For me it showa "På lager", which means "In stock" ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 01, 2012, 03:49:31 PM
Well yes, that would be one and I do think I've seen it myself... However there is no mention of them being in stock on the site now that I can see. But you still need to go down to the individual item description to see that it's in fact "PRE-ORDER! Ships late February!"

I assume this last is subject to change, unless anyone has received a shipping notice yet..?

BTW I do believe dwartist (AKA "dwartist UNA" on the bygone Rackham forum AFAIK) is a member here and has a still standing preorder. Might he act as the arbitrator in this little contest thingy we are having?

dwartist UNA; dwartist; and now dwartist (moron) apparently! As I stated on TMP, I have no previous dealings with Mr Reidy or his other erstwhile manifestations so have no real reason to be cynical only disappointed. I did pre-order the Marines (though I didn't need to as Tony asked me if I'd like to paint a few) and that pre-order stands. I hope the Marines - and the rest of the range - materialises and have no reason to believe that the delays are not genuine. I'll wait and see....
"Contest thingy"?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 01, 2012, 03:58:09 PM
Oi, I have already apologised for the moron comments you two  :(

it was a wrong term, but I honeslty thought everyone would have know of the whole WF hoo-ha as it was over all the forums. Sorry again as you are not morons - you might be a far too talented painter Dwartist however  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 01, 2012, 04:47:47 PM
I think it should be understood that any derisory comments aimed at 'customers' are not meant for the innocent victims of Defiance but rather are aimed at the flag waving evangelical lunatics that seem to surround Tony feeding his delusions with their constant loud appreciations of his genius and the quality of his imaginary figures.
Anyone who sent money in good faith three months ago when the marines were announced as being ready are victims, not perpetrators, after all.
Those of us for whom this is just a slow motion action replay of previous events are really just looking on in incredulous horror :)

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on March 01, 2012, 05:02:05 PM
...SNIP...
Those of us for whom this is just a slow motion action replay of previous events are really just looking on in incredulous horror :)

Nothing incredulous about it. More like a sense of looming inevitability.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 01, 2012, 06:18:24 PM
Oi, I have already apologised for the moron comments you two  :(

it was a wrong term, but I honeslty thought everyone would have know of the whole WF hoo-ha as it was over all the forums. Sorry again as you are not morons - you might be a far too talented painter Dwartist however  :D

I wasn't offended so no apology needed...and, aw shucks!  ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 01, 2012, 06:51:43 PM
Oi, I have already apologised for the moron comments you two  :(

it was a wrong term, but I honeslty thought everyone would have know of the whole WF hoo-ha as it was over all the forums. Sorry again as you are not morons - you might be a far too talented painter Dwartist however  :D

I WAS offended.  Dammit *shakes fist angrily*  >:(

To make it up to me you can take a handful of my unpainted figures, and paint them up all nice for me.   lol

Okay, I wasn't really offended, but I do have figures in need of painting!   :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 02, 2012, 01:35:41 AM
It is easy to call people morons for placing an advance order but not everyone was aware of previous problems or business practices...we are all very trusting, after all.



I'm on alot of miniature/gaming forums, and that trusting part does seem to hold mostly true.

It seems 'our kind' is indeed of a very trusting nature, but only because the community itself is filled with honest and decent people.

It's too bad that our trusting nature gets taken advantage of, but I suppose that is the world we live in.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 02, 2012, 07:03:49 AM
"Contest thingy"?
Yoda says: "Read the thread you partcipate in you should" ;)

The short version: some folks are (at least semiofficially) agreeing to "guess the actual release date for the marines" competition. Everyone names a date and a price (some miniatures) to go into the "pot". Whoever gets the date closest is the winner and gets whatever's in the pot (I assume it not returnable...). I suggested that somebody who has preordered might act as an arbitrator so since you appear to still have a standing preorder and are going to keep it you might be a good candidate for the job.

And there, as they say, you have it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 02, 2012, 09:03:38 AM
I WAS offended.  Dammit *shakes fist angrily*  >:(

To make it up to me you can take a handful of my unpainted figures, and paint them up all nice for me.   lol

Okay, I wasn't really offended, but I do have figures in need of painting!   :D


haven't we all?  lol

I think Dwartist should do them all whilst he waits for his Defiance Marines to turn up, he'll probably have enough time.... lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 02, 2012, 09:04:46 AM
I think it should be understood that any derisory comments aimed at 'customers' are not meant for the innocent victims of Defiance but rather are aimed at the flag waving evangelical lunatics that seem to surround Tony feeding his delusions with their constant loud appreciations of his genius and the quality of his imaginary figures.
Anyone who sent money in good faith three months ago when the marines were announced as being ready are victims, not perpetrators, after all.
Those of us for whom this is just a slow motion action replay of previous events are really just looking on in incredulous horror :)



thanks Paul - that is exactly what I meant  :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: manatic on March 02, 2012, 09:16:20 AM
What's Finnish for 'sketchy'?

'Hämärää' or 'epäilyttävää' or 'epämääräistä', just so you know.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 02, 2012, 10:18:02 AM
haven't we all?  lol

I think Dwartist should do them all whilst he waits for his Defiance Marines to turn up, he'll probably have enough time.... lol

 ::) if only.....you should see my 'painting desk'!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 02, 2012, 11:24:35 AM
'Hämärää' or 'epäilyttävää' or 'epämääräistä', just so you know.
It depends actually, in this case some other translations might apply depending on which parts of the debacle the term is applied to.

Anyway, from TMP, author "Richard Gaulding", date 01 Mar 2012 12:52 p.m. PST:
Quote
Hi, Defiance Games insider here

As of right now the plastic runners are being cut and, as soon as the mold base arrive (which should be the 5th of March) the mold for the Marines will be burned and the Marines will go into production.
Exciting times o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 02, 2012, 12:42:09 PM
It depends actually, in this case some other translations might apply depending on which parts of the debacle the term is applied to.

Anyway, from TMP, author "Richard Gaulding", date 01 Mar 2012 12:52 p.m. PST:Exciting times o_o


So...according to that "insider", they are going to be late again. Because in that "message from the toolmaker" they said:

 
Quote
The mold base will arrive here on Monday the 27th which is three days from Michigan. We then need four days to machine it to accept the components. This puts us at the new date of March 5th.

And now "Richard Gaulding" says that the mold base will arrive on March 5th? Expect a new release date soon...

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 02, 2012, 01:12:11 PM

And now "Richard Gaulding" says that the mold base will arrive on March 5th? Expect a new release date soon...


No Problem,meanwhile we all can join the "What Weapons do you want in yr Sci-fi German Weapon Sprue" Chatter,you know Defiance Games is looking for our Feedback,seriously  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: rwwin on March 02, 2012, 02:51:30 PM
'Hämärää' or 'epäilyttävää' or 'epämääräistä', just so you know.

I know it is wrong in so, so many ways, but I can only picture that being spoken by the muppets Swedish chef.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on March 02, 2012, 03:20:27 PM
Yoda says: "Read the thread you partcipate in you should" ;)

Seems a tad harsh to ask someone a direct question and then require them to read 12 pages of comments before replying.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on March 03, 2012, 08:33:08 AM
I know it is wrong in so, so many ways, but I can only picture that being spoken by the muppets Swedish chef.
I can't.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on March 04, 2012, 12:45:57 AM
Mantic's Corporation troops are due out in March as well.  I'm guessing I will be able to odre a box of them before my preordered Defiance Marines get here especially since Mantic has pics of actual minis on their page....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 04, 2012, 01:19:39 AM
So...according to that "insider", they are going to be late again. Because in that "message from the toolmaker" they said:

 
And now "Richard Gaulding" says that the mold base will arrive on March 5th? Expect a new release date soon...




yeah and once they were really casted they will end up on the wrong Boat and Defiance Games will have Issues with their Email Notification System  ::) 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on March 04, 2012, 08:01:11 AM


My previous post:

Quote
I just read a date of the 5th of March for the plastics to arrive.

Tomorrow will reveal all....................... :o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Frank Frey on March 04, 2012, 01:51:04 PM

My previous post:

Tomorrow will reveal all....................... :o


Indeed it will...among other things it will reveal whether or not I cancel my pre-order and ask for a refund. :-I
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on March 04, 2012, 08:45:36 PM
Feels like there should be a drum roll or something.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 04, 2012, 09:51:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itAOGRiYRLI&feature=related
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on March 04, 2012, 10:00:14 PM
 lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 05, 2012, 08:02:56 AM
Seems a tad harsh to ask someone a direct question and then require them to read 12 pages of comments before replying
Seems a tad silly to quotemine in a case like this.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: chromedog on March 05, 2012, 10:12:47 AM
Sir, thy bips and bops doth offend mine ears.  Kindly taketh that pish tosh elsewhere.

The chemical bros are by far a worse punishment than any delays on Defiant games minis.
The bile expectorated on this thread has far surpassed that seen in any of a hundred different rants on GWs failcast.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on March 05, 2012, 10:41:11 AM
From the faecesbook:
Quote
Crossing our fingers for a good update from the toolmaker tomorrow on the USMC!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 05, 2012, 01:07:14 PM
Bile clearly isn't an effective bullshit deterrant :)
Still no Marines then?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 05, 2012, 01:21:45 PM
Bile clearly isn't an effective bullshit deterrant :)
Still no Marines then?

still plenty of the day left for the Marines to be available - or was it today would be the day the mould is finished, I forget  ???
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 05, 2012, 01:23:15 PM
im pretty sure they will ship them all out tomorrow:they getting the final Moulds today,cast all the Preorders-today,pack them and send them out by tomorrow,No Quality control needed:every single Sprue will be "outstanding" not to say "stellar"  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 05, 2012, 01:32:03 PM
No news about this on DG site as of 5 minutes ago that I could see. But then, it's still early in the day for the USAnians...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 05, 2012, 01:58:51 PM
surely, the sun just peeked out here!

He's got all day to disappoint!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on March 05, 2012, 02:42:43 PM
Greater chance salmon will talk than those marines will see the light of day this week.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 05, 2012, 03:11:29 PM
Hey all you doubters and naysayers, bad news, and GREAT news for all you believers and pre-orderers!

As of right now the Defiance web store lists the Marines as In Stock!!!!!

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/CptJake_Minis/SnagIt.jpg)

 lol

 lol

 lol

I would say I am sorry, but frankly this joke is still funny to me...

 :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on March 05, 2012, 04:34:52 PM
I liked the soundtrack the Chemical Brothers did for "Hanna":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqI9ERxIDk4

Last night, watched Tony Bourdain hanging out in the SoCal desert with Josh Homme from Queens of the Stone Age--including a visit to the totally trippy Integratron in Joshua Tree:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/09/anthony-bourdain-integratron_n_922117.html

Good soundtrack on that show, too.  As ever, Mr. Bartella, your excellent taste is unsurpassed.

Why is anyone talking about placcy figs, anyway?

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 05, 2012, 04:42:26 PM
It's ok Allen, they're not real placcy figures, just made up ones :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 05, 2012, 05:02:02 PM
Let's see what they are saying on the Defiance forum:

Quote
I do not recall anyone saying that they would be released on the 5th. The toolmaker did mention the 5th as an approximate date for their test run, not the release.


Of course it's a forum member - seven - saying that. Still no word from the official Defiance sources... lol

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on March 05, 2012, 05:36:50 PM
(http://aaronetto.blogspot.com/Rationalize%20or%20Backpedal.gif)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on March 05, 2012, 08:11:26 PM
It's ok Allen, they're not real placcy figures, just made up ones :)

Ah.  Right.  I had overlooked that bit.  Again.

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 05, 2012, 09:11:55 PM
My only note of sadness about any of this is that Howard Whitehouse is caught up with them, again. If only for his sake I'd like to see this succeed.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 05, 2012, 09:43:00 PM
My only note of sadness about any of this is that Howard Whitehouse is caught up with them, again. If only for his sake I'd like to see this succeed.

Have to agree there.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: fitterpete on March 05, 2012, 09:53:16 PM
Third that Carlos.
Howard is a great guy.I always enjoy chatting with him and seeing his games(they always look like everyone is having such a good time) at the HMGS cons.

Pete
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on March 05, 2012, 10:17:49 PM
My only note of sadness about any of this is that Howard Whitehouse is caught up with them, again.

By deliberate choice not accident.

Daring to speak your mind about the last Reidy et al fiasco showed some of us a very different side to Mr Whitehouse. You reap what you sow in this world.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Geudens on March 06, 2012, 12:36:58 AM
My only note of sadness about any of this is that Howard Whitehouse is caught up with them, again. If only for his sake I'd like to see this succeed.

Howard, a true gent, no doubt!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 06, 2012, 07:06:58 AM
I've not had the pleasure of meeting Howard or witnessing any of his games at conventions. I merely know him from occasional exhanges on various internet fora. He strikes me as a most amiable and good natured chap. Sort of bloke you would happily join for a pint and chat about toy soldiers, parenting or whatever. I didn't really really get too wrapped up into the whole interminable debate over on the Molestor's Page about the demise of WF, so I can't comment on his contribution. I never purchased any of WF's product, it simply didn't appeal. My only regret is that they didn't have the presence of mind to change the comnpany's name to WTF before it was taken over/collapsed. That would have been quite apposite.  ;)

I don't know Tony Reidy, nor have I had any dealings with him. As such, I hold no hard feelings for him. I suppose I'm with Jake on this one, I rather prefer the traditional business model of flogging the goods once they are produced rather than vice versa.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 06, 2012, 07:24:17 AM
Here's the big announcement from yesterday:
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/usmc-and-bug-tooling-wrapping-up

So, still no plastic running it seems but they do make their best to convince they are going to get to that this week and apologize for the delay.

Also, on TMP, Tony presented an explanation for the "In Stock" thingy. Reportedly, the store software doesn't understand "preorder"...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on March 06, 2012, 07:28:42 AM
If it doesn't understand 'pre-order' then he shouldn't put stuff up because that would be in breach of the trade descriptions act, surely?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on March 06, 2012, 08:26:52 AM
If it doesn't understand 'pre-order' then he shouldn't put stuff up because that would be in breach of the trade descriptions act, surely?


indeed. it's getting worse and worse.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 06, 2012, 08:59:32 AM
Here's the big announcement from yesterday:
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/usmc-and-bug-tooling-wrapping-up

is it me or does it look like those moulds haven't got much detail on them - as in the figures will not come out with a lot of sharp detail - to me they look 'soft' in the metal!  ???
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on March 06, 2012, 09:07:41 AM
dunno, i think that it is because of the photo. But i'm not shure! =)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 06, 2012, 09:34:45 AM
WHo really gives a toss, they will be shit if they get released eventually. If not, all the better. I dont have any pity for the dimwits who have actually preordered them. (Maybe some for those who have ordered thinking they're actually in stock due to the webstore...) Kill it with fire I say.

Sorry, shitty day at work. >:(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 06, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
If it doesn't understand 'pre-order' then he shouldn't put stuff up because that would be in breach of the trade descriptions act, surely?
Can't link to a TMP post directly but here's Tony (or, Defiance Games 05 Mar 2012 8:43 p.m. PST):
Quote
I just heard the bit about the "in stock" bit being a big problem for someone. I hadn't noticed it before. I just checked it out and it's a function of the store software. If we want to allow for pre-orders it has to be "in stock". Sorry if that is misleading in anyway…I figured the big "PRE-ORDER" notice next to it would work

The thread is here, it's the second-to-latest message ATM:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=249945

 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Hubminator on March 06, 2012, 06:17:44 PM
Verdera, As one of the dimwits who preordered, I thank you for your positivity and the prescience you have to know what I have paid for will be shit... It must be nice to go through life being able to predict exactly how things I assume you have no actual knowledge of will turn out...some of us prefer to have a positive view of stuff, even if it is misplaced and naive, helps us cope with the those crappy days at work without insulting others... Have a nice day
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 06, 2012, 06:23:20 PM
Did you really register just to whine?

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 06, 2012, 07:24:03 PM
Verdera, As one of the dimwits who preordered, I thank you for your positivity and the prescience you have to know what I have paid for will be shit... It must be nice to go through life being able to predict exactly how things I assume you have no actual knowledge of will turn out...some of us prefer to have a positive view of stuff, even if it is misplaced and naive, helps us cope with the those crappy days at work without insulting others... Have a nice day

Lol, alrighty then. I didn't actually expect anyone on this forum to be as daft as to preorder them. Sorry, sorry, didn't mean daft. What is the word I am looking for here... gullible perhaps? I am sorry for calling any pre-orderers dimwits, that was perhaps too harsh.

But I must say it's curious you took offence at this sarcastic remark which wasn't specifically directed at you personally (since I didn't at the time even know of your existence, or indeed would have known, had you not registered and posted here). If you have followed this company Defiance Games at all, surely you must see how their credibility is called to question? There are pages of this drivel on this forum and many others. Caveat emptor and all that.

But if against all the odd this actually works out for you in the end, and you're happy with the minis, who am I to call you or anyone any names? I will however reserve the right to be positive or negative about anything I like, and call things like I see them. It's called freedom of speech.  Trust me, the minis will be shit, if they ever appear. You may not like to hear it, so feel free to ignore me.

The name is Verderer by the way.

 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 06, 2012, 07:25:28 PM
Did you really register just to whine?



well, I don't think they have a sock puppet account here, one was needed  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Hubminator on March 06, 2012, 08:56:22 PM
Verderer (apologies for misspelling), fair dos, I do agree the delays etc...from Defiance games are not a good look, and it may all be a sham, but I guess I got excited enough about the designs and concepts to be enthusiastic about it all and still hold out hope that they will deliver and the minis will fill some gaps I have had in my sci fi collection for ages. Freedom of speech, absolutely and sorry if my post implied otherwise, particularly about the positive/negative thing, you are absolutely right :) I did not take your post personally at all. I guess taste is a very subjective thing, I have a few of the WGF orcs and I think they are pretty cool, whereas many probably disagree. All the best.


Cptjake....absolutely, isn't that what the internet is for? :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Hubminator on March 06, 2012, 08:59:11 PM
ps Daft is fine, I quite like daft
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 06, 2012, 09:06:33 PM
"Trust me" - Why?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 06, 2012, 10:09:55 PM
"Trust me" - Why?

'Cause I knows best, so there.  lol

Haven't you seen the promo/prototype mini?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on March 06, 2012, 11:42:22 PM
I'm at a loss as to how this chucklehead and his vaporware have garnered 16 pages of attention.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 07, 2012, 12:02:37 AM
I'm at a loss as to how this chucklehead and his vaporware have garnered 16 pages of attention.



i saw the Light,heard the Noise,after all im just another Gaffer  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: mpennock on March 07, 2012, 04:47:03 AM
Quote
I'm at a loss as to how this chucklehead and his vaporware have garnered 16 pages of attention.


Last week I broke a tooth. My dentist got me in to fix it the very next morning, but I still spent the evening with a broken tooth. By the next morning, my tongue was cut and sore from continually probing the jagged edge; I just couldn't seem to leave it alone.

This thread is rather like that; You know that you really shouldn't, but can't keep yourself from continually poking at it....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on March 07, 2012, 07:05:18 AM
Just as well that I didn't put my money on the 5th..............  :o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 07, 2012, 07:09:42 AM


Last week I broke a tooth. My dentist got me in to fix it the very next morning, but I still spent the evening with a broken tooth. By the next morning, my tongue was cut and sore from continually probing the jagged edge; I just couldn't seem to leave it alone.

No Milliput or Green stuff in the house eh?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 07, 2012, 07:59:12 AM
The DG order page has been changed to more explicitly say that Marines are available for preorder and also changed estimated to ship date to be "March". The shop software still says "In stock" of course, but I guess that's not something they can change, or possibly have the expertise to change.

The TMP discussion is getting truly nasty now, complete with allegations of people lying about the old content of the shop page.

But, still no news about the Marines becoming actually available.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Lowtardog on March 07, 2012, 09:16:47 AM
I'm at a loss as to how this chucklehead and his vaporware have garnered 16 pages of attention.



71 pages on Frothers, count yourself lucky ;D :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 07, 2012, 10:14:04 AM
The DG order page has been changed to more explicitly say that Marines are available for preorder and also changed estimated to ship date to be "March". The shop software still says "In stock" of course, but I guess that's not something they can change, or possibly have the expertise to change.

The TMP discussion is getting truly nasty now, complete with allegations of Jake lying about the old content of the shop page.

But, still no news about the Marines becoming actually available.

Fixed that.   And for the record, I wasn't lying.   

Jake
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 07, 2012, 10:25:33 AM
I do believe the courtesy was extended to all and sundry who have had grievances with how the "in stock/preorder" issue has been handled. You were just selected for special treatment because you, according to the not-DefGames-rep, kept "naysaying the obvious".
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 07, 2012, 11:33:17 AM
when has PMT not been nasty?

I bet there are some boobs in the frothers 71 pages of hate at least.

strangely enough no, but complaints about lack of standards have been made  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 07, 2012, 11:50:33 AM
when has PMT not been nasty?
In regards to DG, probably never. Otherwise, I think it's pretty tame on the whole. At least the scifi section, I don't go to other parts of it much.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 07, 2012, 11:55:06 AM
strangely enough no, but complaints about lack of standards have been made  :D

there were tits by page 54... well, technically side tit I suppose, with a mirror... and someone posted a picture of Tony if that counts...

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: mpennock on March 07, 2012, 01:07:36 PM
Quote
No Milliput or Green stuff in the house eh?

Yes, actually. I just save that for important things like miniatures.   lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 07, 2012, 01:37:27 PM
The DG order page has been changed to more explicitly say that Marines are available for preorder and also changed estimated to ship date to be "March"
Correction to this, the page still looks almost exactly to same as before except that it now says "PRE-ORDER! Estimated to ship in March!" instead of the former promise to ship by the end of February.

Also, no further news on the subject of Marines at this time.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 07, 2012, 01:46:18 PM
i would not be surprised if the Bugs comes before the Marines  :-X
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 07, 2012, 01:57:35 PM
i would not be surprised if the Bugs comes before the Marines  :-X

There is actually a good chance of that.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on March 07, 2012, 02:45:45 PM
What are the chances Tony at DG will shell out a free box of marines to the winner of the "when will the Marines finally see the lght of day" bet?  Well....maybe just a poster of the picture of the marines box art?  Something?  Anything?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on March 07, 2012, 06:06:42 PM
Quote
when has PMT not been nasty?

Just because Frothers got sick of these comments doesn't mean you should bring them here.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on March 07, 2012, 08:16:10 PM
when has PMT not been nasty?

I bet there are some boobs in the frothers 71 pages of hate at least.

Well, please stay at topic. I don't like bashing of other forums and wouldnt allow that.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 07, 2012, 09:19:39 PM
Well, please stay at topic. I don't like bashing of other forums and wouldnt allow that.

well, I doubt Frothers would mind - we've already been told it's all our fault anyway  lol

sheesh, it is WF all over again isn't it?  ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: voltan on March 07, 2012, 09:36:52 PM
i would not be surprised if the Bugs comes before the Marines  :-X

Is that a bit like the chicken and egg question?


Sorry! ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on March 07, 2012, 10:01:42 PM
Quote
Well....maybe just a poster of the picture of the marines box art?  Something?  Anything?

The prize he's providing is already available and in stock!  Just put down a small deposit so that it can be developed and manufactured.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ajsalium on March 07, 2012, 10:45:01 PM
there were tits by page 54... well, technically side tit I suppose, with a mirror... and someone posted a picture of Tony if that counts...



That was my work. :D I thought the thread needed something nice, to compensate for all that hate.

I'll read the last pages now (wow! 10 pages today), and see if I deem necessary to lighten the spirits again.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 08, 2012, 02:21:56 AM
I'm denser than I should be....What is PMT??
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 08, 2012, 05:29:36 AM
I think Scurv means TMP, which (when I use it anyway) stands for The Miniatures Page. At least one of my above posts contains a direct link to the next-to-latest "DG hate thread" on their forum. Lost of kinda-sorta-funny stuff's been going on over there during the night I see ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 08, 2012, 09:38:44 AM
Ah, I thought it stood for Post Menopause Temper-tantrum... lol.  I will get me coat.



Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 08, 2012, 11:51:53 AM
Scurv - you'll be glad to know standards have been restored and there is a pic of a cracking lass with her norks out in that thread now  :-*
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on March 08, 2012, 01:52:35 PM
Oh my god, I just went to take a look at the frothers thread and jumped to the end. That large picture of one of the marines (page 87)... is that for real?!?

Assuming it is then I suggest every person who's put money up for those pieces of $£@& get a refund asap. Even assuming a too thick paint job....

I had held out silent hope for these. There was no way I was putting money up for them in advance but I was hoping that when they eventually saw the light of day they'd fill a hole in my sci-fi stuff. Evidently not.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 08, 2012, 02:23:46 PM
I have to agree, that after the WGF debacle I decided to steer clear of this but as other's have said, those large shots of the marines are just appalling!  :o Very little sculpted detail and 'enhanced' but the paint job. I really like the concept art, but the execution is absolutely awful and such a same, as I say, as the concept art is very good, (the artwork for the germans and various hardsuits are really nice).

If they actually got decent sculptors in to work on their concepts, they would make ligit money hand over fist. Currently, (in my opinion) they seem to be racking up prepayments to fund the actually releases, have no project and no concept of how to communicate in a businesslike fashion.

I expect that the mud will start to be spread by the company re: product delays, much like the previous venture and everyone, the mould makers,forums, customers, hell probably even the chinese will get the blame for any future defiance fold, (much like the shambles that was WGF).

The Commander
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 08, 2012, 02:35:44 PM
for the Frother-phobic  ;)

(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/336/b/4/28mm_usmc_rifle_by_sculptorwanted-d4hxr04.jpg)

(http://www.wargamesandminiatures.com/nopcommerce/images/thumbs/0000924_300.jpeg)

(http://defiancegames.com/images/usmarine1.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 08, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
ooh very disapointing  :-[ before i spend Money on these i will better start painting  some of my Robogear,EM4 Plastics,SST Troopers or anything else  :?
Same for the Bugs:theyre (Butt) ugly and i still have plenty shrinkwrapped Boxes of the (much cooler) SST Bugs...
The upcoming Germans perhaps?Well, only if you havent seen the Dream Forge Eisenkern Guys  :-X

otherwise im willing to send them immediatly 100 Bucks for a Meet+Greet (and a kick in his Teeth) with Richard G or Leland.Watch out for the Ass Puppet Special Offer  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 08, 2012, 03:45:04 PM
if you looke at the third pic, they have painted the eyes so realistically they have got the old red eye from the camera.....  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 08, 2012, 06:25:25 PM
I think Scurv means TMP, which (when I use it anyway) stands for The Miniatures Page. At least one of my above posts contains a direct link to the next-to-latest "DG hate thread" on their forum. Lost of kinda-sorta-funny stuff's been going on over there during the night I see ::)

Thanks.  I am indeed familair with THe Miniatures Page (TMP), but thought there was something new in the mix.

I agree, those pics of the marines are not too promising.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Torben on March 08, 2012, 08:09:36 PM
for the Frother-phobic  ;)
(Pictures)

... Erghm. Well, erh... I'd prefer the EM-4 Plastic troopers; they were made years ago, on the cheap - and they still look better than this!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joe5mc on March 08, 2012, 08:17:27 PM
Very few painted miniatures look good when blown up to larger than actual size.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 08, 2012, 08:23:15 PM
Very few painted miniatures look good when blown up to larger than actual size.

Most of them have fingers though.
It's not the paint that's the problem, the complete lack of any detail is the problem, and these are the rapid prototypes which will have more detail than the final cast plastic. Not a good sign.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 08, 2012, 08:24:22 PM
And, no more discussion about other forums please, you want to complain about the moobs use a PM, that way you can swear at Scott too if you want to :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: A_Train on March 08, 2012, 08:29:46 PM
For someone who didn't know about much of this drama until recently, can you tell me how the Wargames Factory Shocktroopers compare in detail to this marine?   I've heard they are not th ebest, but they still seemed like a relatively good deal to me.
BUt are they as bad as this marine?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 08, 2012, 09:08:34 PM
They're better than the marines and they're available to buy which is a point in their favour. Have you seen the Mantic ones?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: A_Train on March 08, 2012, 09:56:36 PM
When you say the Mantic ones, I assume you mean the Corporation?  They definitely look like some great units, that is for certain.  But they lack two things I really like about the WF Shocktroopers:  Greatcoats and low price. 
I have a pretty small sci fi collection as it stands, and don't even play any set of rules yet.  So in order to get things started I'm hoping to get a fair amount of units at a low price.


The Mantic ones seems like a great suggestion, it would just cost me more to get playing.   Do they scale up well to WF Shocktroopers?  Maybe they could eventually be an opposing force to them.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 08, 2012, 11:01:57 PM
It's not the paint that's the problem, the complete lack of any detail is the problem

the detail is there... it's just painted on  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ZuluPaul on March 08, 2012, 11:29:25 PM
I have the WF Shock troopers & I like them. They go together well in my opinion & as stated, they are available now & at a decent price. The heavy weapons set however has no instuctions on assembling the weapons so be aware of that. The figures are OK though.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 09, 2012, 12:25:07 AM
i have the WF Shock Troopers & i hate them:The Details are very soft,its hard to tell the "Leg armour" apart from the Legs or the Boots.Cool,dynamic Poses?Not with these Guys if you have 10 of them in a Line they look like the Terracotta Army.Remember the 2nd Edition 40k Plastic Marines  :? The only (partly) usefull Things from this Box were the Heads (they wont fit with most other Minis and Lack of Detail-i told you before!)
Honestly, they dont worth the Money at all-for almost the Same Price you can get the 80Minis Bag from Warzone...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 09, 2012, 10:34:14 AM
Please do not ever lead me to an image of man boobs aka moobs again. That milkshake will not bring my boys to the yard man. I am not even going to ask why there are moobs on frothers. I know the answer already , because its frothers you silly c&^$  :D

 lol  guess someone found the wrong page - oops
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Col.Stone on March 09, 2012, 10:41:47 AM
Most of them have fingers though.
It's not the paint that's the problem, the complete lack of any detail is the problem, and these are the rapid prototypes which will have more detail than the final cast plastic. Not a good sign.

I'm curious tho, isn't that just the case if the use the rapid prototype to make the moulds?
I thought they used the render for that and the rapid protottype is just that, a prototype to see if the bits go together?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 09, 2012, 11:27:06 AM
No news on the DG Marines as of yet (since March 5, that is). Ah well, maybe I'll check again on Monday... o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 09, 2012, 11:47:16 AM
I hope Defiance has gotten the message over the last week or so about putting out 'news' that they are not 100% positive is accurate.   I also think they got the message on letting their self proclaimed PR guy throw gasoline on the fire. 

By the way, I read through that Frothers thread.  I almost spit coffee out of my nose several times while reading.   I must admit, I even found the moobs funny if disturbing.   :o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 09, 2012, 12:40:21 PM
you cant talk about it Alien its too horrible for LAF  :o

yup, sorry  :(

the flipper handed marine is pretty damn horrible too, to get back on topic.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 09, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
Well, I told you so didn't I? ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on March 09, 2012, 01:10:14 PM
Maybe future Marines don't have fingers?  Or maybe just a trigger finger?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Michka on March 09, 2012, 02:51:59 PM
I know I'm treading on dangerous ground here, but I don't think the prototype looks all that bad. I remember getting some Starship Troopers figures with less details on the hands and they painted up just fine. In fact the second photo on display looks pretty darn nice.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on March 09, 2012, 03:36:32 PM
In fact the second photo on display looks pretty darn nice.

That's kind of the point though, that is their 'press release' figure and while you expect a company to show off the figure with a good paint job, that paint job is rather misleading in that it has plenty of detail painted onto the figure. The hands are the easy example as on the second picture they look well defined and sculpted, on the first picture however it's easy to see that they are almost featureless mittens.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 09, 2012, 08:12:58 PM
I know I'm treading on dangerous ground here, but I don't think the prototype looks all that bad. I remember getting some Starship Troopers figures with less details on the hands and they painted up just fine. In fact the second photo on display looks pretty darn nice.

Oh come on, lets be clear here, using the arguement that another company (whose range went down the pan) did poorly detailed minis; so these will be ok with paint is a little on the weak side.

No meaning to jump on you here but but there's no way anyone should contemplate handing money over on these poorly executed miniatures.

If you want cheap and very well detailed marines, go for the old Em-4 marines, at £1.28 each and in metal I think they'll even work out cheaper than these lumps of post rendered garbage and at 15+ years old still stand up against current sculpts.

I'm more annoyed that they are pissing away some lovely concept material which, will end up just as poorly executed as the marines. (If produced at all). Someone at Defiance please listen, get decent sculptors on board, stap fannying about with tech that you obviously don't understand, look to your competitors who are doing it better than you (mantic for example have physical product in respect to their corporation minis and have shifted it, no bullshit, no vapour minis, no lies, just product and fact).

Use the concept art that is your gift to produce some excellent miniatures.

Rant off.

;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 10, 2012, 01:23:07 AM

If you want cheap and very well detailed marines, go for the old Em-4 marines, at £1.28 each and in metal I think they'll even work out cheaper than these lumps of post rendered garbage and at 15+ years old still stand up against current sculpts.

I'll go a step further...Those Em-4 miniatures are superior to most current sculpts, at least for that subject matter.

Plus the poses are better, have more variety, and mine came pre-primed!!

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Michka on March 10, 2012, 02:06:21 AM
Oh come on, lets be clear here, using the arguement that another company (whose range went down the pan) did poorly detailed minis; so these will be ok with paint is a little on the weak side.

No meaning to jump on you here but but there's no way anyone should contemplate handing money over on these poorly executed miniatures.

If you want cheap and very well detailed marines, go for the old Em-4 marines, at £1.28 each and in metal I think they'll even work out cheaper than these lumps of post rendered garbage and at 15+ years old still stand up against current sculpts.

I just spent ten minutes trying to come up with a reply that didn't sound "flame-y". I'm not saying these are great. What I'm saying is they have their place in the market, or they will if they ever come out.

And I liked the Starship Troopers miniatures. I bought many, many of them. My biggest complaint is that they came out with way too many all at once. The game did nothing for me but the background and the minis were great. I even liked the RPG, and it was a d20 system for crying out load. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 10, 2012, 09:39:54 AM
Isn't Mongoose JD miniature game still around? In theory they might still pull it off, but knowing them, they probably won't?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joe5mc on March 10, 2012, 09:47:15 AM
Is it really fair to complain about a compnay trying to make their figure look better through a good paint job? All companies do this, and great paint jobs often add detail that isn't actually on the miniature.  Personally, I think the (non-existant) minis look okay.  I've seen worse. I've seen better.

I've got a bunch of the Wargames Factory Orcs. Many people would say that they aren't the best sculpts, but they happen to perfectly fit my perception of what an Orc should look like, thus I'm extremely happy with them. Some people might feel the same way about these Defiance marines, and a LAF, with its reputation for mutual respect and comraderie, should respect that.

On the other hand, a company that consistently fails to deliver on its promises, that's worth harping about.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 10, 2012, 09:53:54 AM
Miniatures are meant to be painted, and painting is meant to make minis look better, no doubt. Covering up the lack of detail, or painting details that don't exist is a difficult art, but the point is exactly that, the missing details.

Anyhow, I liked the look of the Wargames Factory orcs too. The concept was as if taken straight from Angus McBride's MERP module cover pictures. However, I was sorely disappointed by the awkward poses, open hands (bad, bad) and soft details. So I didn't buy any after all. Pity they couldn't execute them any better. Properly done they'd been the perfect alternative for 'realistic' orcs aka not-warhammery, I think. As opposed to the ones Mantic makes, for example.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 10, 2012, 12:43:53 PM
Is it really fair to complain about a compnay trying to make their figure look better through a good paint job? All companies do this, and great paint jobs often add detail that isn't actually on the miniature.  Personally, I think the (non-existant) minis look okay.  I've seen worse. I've seen better.

Some people might feel the same way about these Defiance marines, and a LAF, with its reputation for mutual respect and comraderie, should respect that.

On the other hand, a company that consistently fails to deliver on its promises, that's worth harping about.

I have never seen any ranges other than WGF and now defiance who consistently over paint poorly detailed and sculpted miniatures. I'm sorry but paint should not be used to add detail, merely detail it! When you paint your house do you make sure you do the best job prepping and detailing your walls before paint, or do you just add murals and hope no one notices?

LAF isn't about blowing smoke up people's arses just for the hell of it, our about 'emperor's new clothes', and enticing other people into the pre-order trap by being supportive of rapid 'detailed' prototypes (that should be the most highly detailed and prized advertising weapon in the company's armoury).

So, sock pupperty aside, LAF has built it's reputation on honest, considered and thoughtful commentaries, good standards of miniature projects, painting and sculpting. Not sure why comradrie should even be an issue? If a project looks poor, the company itself has a dubious current and historic approach to miniature production why is anyone going to side with them?

Until proven wrong this is my take on the situation, I really genuinely hope that they prove me wrong and don't waste excellent concept designs in such a poorly throught through and unprofessional manner.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 10, 2012, 12:58:59 PM
I agree. I think people like different models for different reasons and no one should criticize that, or them.
My problem with these particular almost-models is that the quality to hype ratio is so low. Like the Commander I think the concept paintings are good but the execution is so poor in comparison that it makes the original concepts worthless.

These Marines have been hyped to hell and back as the most awsomest miniatures ever seen by God or man and they won't live up to a fraction of that. They're late and disappointing and, thanks to the mold pictures posted recently, oddly implemented too.
Only two figures per sprue? Only one if you want back packs on them. Two figures but four bases?

Considering the cost of a mold you'd think some serious thought would go into it. Now, I presume lots of identical little sprues are more economical to put in a box than fewer larger ones as the metal molds are the cost not the plastic, but the space here seems less optimised than a Perry, Victrix or Immortal sprue which are the only ones I have to compare them to. Maybe that's a consideration of the modular approach that will pay dividends down the line later (will there be a later?) but, even so, two figures seems a small payoff for that amount of plastic.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the final miniatures. I do think they'll be crap and I don't suppose I'll buy any as there are better, cheaper options out there already for this sort of thing but maybe the boxes will look good if they use the concept artist.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Penchour on March 10, 2012, 01:19:47 PM
I think the whole problem is with the balance between casting quality and price : how much are you prepared to pay for what quality. The overall quality of plastic minis has slightly progressed within the last decades, thanks to GW's standard and technical knowledge (whatever you may think of GW). Mantic, Vitrix, Perry miniatures, all took advantage of that evolution, bringing valuable products, some cheaper than others. WF, and now what can be seen from DG actual ranges doesn't match that quality, yet being expensive for what they really are. Cut the price by 2 or 3, and you'll meet a more reasonnable market (... if you actually do deliver the products).
You can have poor casting that turn out to brillant minis once painted ... but not everyone is talented enough to come with such a good result (or does have the  needed time to come with). If you do think the miniature range hit your needs, fine, but this can also be disappointing to others. Since I bought (and sold back) several references from WF (zombis, british line and romans, to be more specific) I have low expectation on what DG might come with, and I'm rather reluctant toward their (forthcoming) products, despite finding the concept pretty interessing. That painted model do match WF's average standards, revealing their lack of details, and IMO (and you may disagree) those marines are then far too expensive.


Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 10, 2012, 01:30:06 PM
I know what you mean, but from my position, I wouldn't take these on if someone paid me.

This is about poor business execution, over inflated egos and poor business sense. I have no doubt that the chinese will be blamed for any future failure to deliver as before...

Defiance Games should take a leaf out of the book re: Mantic, perry, etc... and produce better quality miniatures that fit the current market expectations.

Also, it's not just about the big guys:

http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/ (http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/)

Excellent concept material...check, Rendered miniatures...check, commitment to clear information, check, kickstarter endorsement...check and the product.. excellent quality, (and the minor issues with regards to upper arm sizing pale into insignificance when we refer back to the marines in question.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 10, 2012, 01:39:26 PM
I like the heads on the heavies, shame about the skirts though :(
However, that's certainly a good example of how it should be done.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sterling Moose on March 10, 2012, 01:47:08 PM
I'm interested to see what is ready, if anything. I'm booked into Howard's game at Cold Wars tonight - and the prize is some Defiance USMC.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on March 10, 2012, 02:28:40 PM
Will be interesting to see if there are any "loose sprues" for sale.

Back at the beginning of the Wargames Factory WSS saga Reidy/Whitehouse/Barry express shipped a load of sprues from China to USA to be sold to public buyers at a convention. No pre-orders were honoured with these sprues despite them having had buyers money (a large amount of mine included) for many months.

That was when the entire thing really got out of hand, delays are one thing, getting stock and not supplying it to people who had already paid for it is another. Forum threads started appearing on TMP and elsewhere from people who had not pre-ordered the figures just turned up at the booth and bought them.

If you do get offered a "prize" box ask if it is available because all the pre-orders have been fulfilled, or is it business as usual for that team?

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 10, 2012, 02:42:12 PM
I think if any sprues were actually available we'd be hearing all about it by now  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on March 10, 2012, 03:09:20 PM
I'm interested to see what is ready, if anything. I'm booked into Howard's game at Cold Wars tonight - and the prize is some Defiance USMC.
It'd be interesting to hear from the horse's mouth so to speak what's happening.
Duncan
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 10, 2012, 05:03:05 PM
Can't say I agree with the concept of paint not adding detail (go look at a Rembrandt!) - camoulflage patterns, tattoos, patterning on clothing (kimono), 5-o-clock shadow, nmm, zenithal highlighting, eyeballs, scratches and chips, reflections on visors.........
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on March 10, 2012, 05:06:15 PM
...scratches and chips, reflections on visors.........

... raindrops on roses, whiskers on kittens ...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 10, 2012, 05:39:33 PM
Can't say I agree with the concept of paint not adding detail (go look at a Rembrandt!) - camoulflage patterns, tattoos, patterning on clothing (kimono), 5-o-clock shadow, nmm, zenithal highlighting, eyeballs, scratches and chips, reflections on visors.........

You know what I mean Dave, everything you've mentioned is enhancement details, you shouldn't need to enhance a flipper to give it 4 fingers and one thumb. I know you've bought a pre-set and I genuinely hope it turns out ok for you, but if you end up spending x3 the usual time you spend on a mini just adding basic details to soft sculpted minis then there has to be something up.

Unless of course you're using GW liquid greenstuff... ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on March 10, 2012, 05:44:39 PM
I'm bored now, we just keep rehashing the same old information, let's not degenerate down to back-biting each other, please.  :'(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 10, 2012, 06:41:55 PM
at least you`ll find plenty of Inspiration here if youre into T-Shirt Printing:the In stock Item with the Defiance Logo is going to be a Hot Seller,so is the i Want to believe Slogan with the Marine pictured  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 10, 2012, 09:29:29 PM
Well for all the scoffers and naysayers I'm pleased to report that I have some Marines sitting in front of me as I type. Detail is very sharp, particularly the weapons and the body armour. Hands all have four fingers and a thumb, each quite distinct and not over-sized. The posing is especially good and very natural, some of the best I've ever seen. Figures cleaned up easily and look like a real pleasure to paint. I'm giving these a 10 out of 10 for execution and design.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 10, 2012, 09:34:39 PM
'I can do magic'.....who's back-biting?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Comsquare on March 10, 2012, 09:36:35 PM
Well for all the scoffers and naysayers I'm pleased to report that I have some Marines sitting in front of me as I type. Detail is very sharp, particularly the weapons and the body armour. Hands all have four fingers and a thumb, each quite distinct and not over-sized. The posing is especially good and very natural, some of the best I've ever seen. Figures cleaned up easily and look like a real pleasure to paint. I'm giving these a 10 out of 10 for execution and design.

Pics please :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on March 10, 2012, 09:43:11 PM
Yep, pics or i didn't happen :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Nosegoblin on March 10, 2012, 09:49:04 PM
I think the painted pic is from a print, not a injection tool...

When I first saw the painted mini it was before they showed the EDM tooling. Why is that important? Because the print may have been done on an Objet printer, leaving rough build lines. Tony would have used ALLOT of primer to cover these issues, leading to a soft detailed mini.... 

I don't know if this is fact, but its one scenario I think is quite possible.

Mark-
DreamForge-Games
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 10, 2012, 10:01:34 PM
I think the painted pic is from a print, not a injection tool...

When I first saw the painted mini it was before they showed the EDM tooling. Why is that important? Because the print may have been done on an Objet printer, leaving rough build lines. Tony would have used ALLOT of primer to cover these issues, leading to a soft detailed mini....  

I don't know if this is fact, but its one scenario I think is quite possible.

Mark-
DreamForge-Games

Mark, I think we've all worked out that this is a print, that's the concern, why use a poorly printed 'cast' to try to sell your product to the masses? Looking at your approach to your new venture, I'd say again that Defiance could have taken a leaf out of your promotion and production book definately

I have product and need to post pics to deal with those nasty scoffers and naysayers

So lets see the product in the flesh, with no primer/paint on it then cheers.

???
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 10, 2012, 10:25:55 PM
Well for all the scoffers and naysayers I'm pleased to report that I have some Marines sitting in front of me as I type.

how? seeing as they weren't even running the mould until after the weekend?

Quote
Just got word from the toolmakers that the mold is scheduled for the test shot on Monday. They sent along the latest pics as well...stay tuned Monday for results of the test.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 10, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
I guess our friend Carlos can be talking about these marines:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=38656.0

 lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 11, 2012, 04:26:57 AM
Oops sorry, just looked at the thread title. These are Eureka's modern USMC  :D




I'll probably be several thosand feet over the Pacific come 1 April so I thought I'd get in early.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Geudens on March 11, 2012, 08:24:07 AM
I think the painted pic is from a print, not a injection tool...
Mark-
DreamForge-Games

Exactly what I thought!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on March 11, 2012, 08:27:32 AM
Cue:  Sounds of angry mob with pitchforks and torches converging on Carlos' house.  lol lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Penchour on March 11, 2012, 09:10:43 AM
Cue:  Sounds of angry mob with pitchforks and torches converging on Carlos' house.  lol lol

you mean a mob ready for preorder ?   lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 12, 2012, 07:52:11 AM
Ooh, I'm so excited to see the test run results tomorrow...
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/usmc-mold-ready-for-testing
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 12, 2012, 08:58:39 AM
Carlos is actually a pretty solid fellow I wouldnt have a go at him even with a pichfork. Too tall to headbutt and run away too. I'm not cross with him as it was a nice pimp for Eureka Minis who I must say know what good service is all about. Nice figs too and lets face it modern infantry look more sci fi than most sci fi figs.

Hey that used to be my favourite tactic, when I was a younger and even more disagreeable version of myself. Run away is optional. Do it right, break the nose and you don't need to, the gush of blood and the tears it brings makes it redundant. If you want to hedge your bets, follow up straight away by running the outside of your boot down the shins and crack,  down onto where the foot joins the leg. Then you can just walk away, more or less at your leisure.

Naughty things, not learned in a boxing ring or on the rugby field..... :(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: twrchtrwyth on March 12, 2012, 04:23:40 PM
dude if I headbutted you I would still run away. You will get up again at some point and I would like to be beyond the blast radius when you did so. I do agree a headbutt stops undesirable conversation having used it and recieved it on several occasions. Why are young men so stupid violent? I remember once my mate bit this guys ear off and spat it in his face for 'starting trouble' and we all thought it was a great lark. Stupid stupid boys thinking they were men was us.

This is really not the place for this, and I mean you to Carlos.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 12, 2012, 04:33:36 PM
regarding sprue content

Quote
Three legs and two torsos? So, there will be a bunch of spare legs too?
Quote
You'll end up with 12 extra legs - but we didn't want to force you to have 8 of each in a 24-man set. You may only want to use 4 of one, etc .
Quote
you really couldn't match the number of torsos to the number of legs? wow!
Quote
Hi Rusty - the ratio was done on purpose. We have one set of legs that is much more dynamic and we wanted to add the variety but not require you to use it on 1/3 of your figures. Also - when you add 1 torso - you then have to add: 1 standard rifle, 2 additional heads, and a couple other bits to round out the figures. We want the frame to give the most bang for the buck. After all, you're buying 24 figures not 24 legs and in the case of the USMC frame you are buying a box of 2 squads of Marines.
Quote
Oh, i can see why you'd do that then, seemed odd as no other plastic figures have come like thar before, didn't see why you'd want to, but that explains it

well no it doesn't... because...

Quote
The frame area is 3.5" x 4" with 27 cavities (parts). Each frame will give you: 3 legs, 2 torsos, 5 different weapon arms, 4 left arms, 6 heads, 1 backpack, and 6 packs/ammo pouches (2 types). The four round cavities you see on the outside of the frame are 25mm bases.

you already have 6 heads, 5 weapon arms and 4 left arms...

drop the bloody backpack, pop in a torso... because lets face it, the backpack is probably the most useless item on there as it's a single piece...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 12, 2012, 04:47:41 PM
Quote
The frame area is 3.5" x 4" with 27 cavities (parts). Each frame will give you: 3 legs, 2 torsos, 5 different weapon arms, 4 left arms, 6 heads, 1 backpack, and 6 packs/ammo pouches (2 types). The four round cavities you see on the outside of the frame are 25mm bases.


This is one of the thing that's bothering me - the 25mm bases in the frame. They don't have channels (don't know if that's the correct name) to them, how can they injected with plastic? 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on March 12, 2012, 06:18:22 PM
It honestly doesn't make sense.  More spare parts and fewer figures.  You end up paying for a lot ofplastic you aren't going to use because they wouldn't give you one more torso.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 12, 2012, 07:10:52 PM
Quote
We're doing something a little different – it's a new plastic manufacturing process and we're very excited by it. We hope to show off the first launches very soon. In the meantime, there is a lot more injection to do!

Re: the USMC frame layout. The Marine set has 24 figures in it. The price of the figures is based on things not related one iota to how many are on a frame. Or what parts are on a frame. If each frame cost $X wouldn't that mean that you would always be better off buying GW Cadians because there are 2 frames per box? Granted, you only get 10 figures for $28 USD…but that's the math.

We sell 24 future USMC for $29.95 USD. That works out to $1.25 USD per figure. Or you can buy those Cadians for $2.80 USD per figure.

The frame design is meant to maximize the possibilities for the ENTIRE set. So you get more legs than torsos because we wanted one set of legs to be more dynamic than the others. However, you would be unhappy if you were FORCED (like most plastic manufacturers make you) to have 1/3 of your figures with a specific set of legs. This way you have the choice of the ratio you want.

If we had added another torso (taking away some other part) to the frame – it would mean that to build an appropriate squad of Marines you would have been short a standard rifle, a full face-mask head, and/or another helmet head.

Frame design (how many parts and what type are on a frame) is a tricky business – and there is a lot of room for choice. We try to maximize your choice by having a good mix of necessary and optional parts.

The VERY last thing we want to do is give you so little choice in your figure set that you actually have to cut something off one figure and glue something else on in order to achieve the variety you want. Such is plastic figures!

In any event, I think you'll like what we came up with! We're on press AT THIS MOMENT! – so we will shortly see the results which we are crossing our fingers are good ones!

Thanks again,
Tony

so there are less marines per sprue for the benefit of the consumer... why are there less backpacks then?

but this...

Quote
If we had added another torso (taking away some other part) to the frame – it would mean that to build an appropriate squad of Marines you would have been short a standard rifle, a full face-mask head, and/or another helmet head.

there are 5 weapons arms? one is the big gun, one (looking at the top right corner) I'm not sure about, but there 3 of the standard rifle at the bottom left of that sprue... so you have enough rifles...

now there are 6 heads on that sprue... 2 appear to be bare headed, 4 have helmets... which I have to assume will be of the full face mask and 'other' helmet heads, but as Tony himself has stated that either is fine to field a full squad, all 4 must be suitable... so you have enough heads...

if the helmets are all different designs, how does that help make a unified squad? what army equips it's units with different helmets?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 12, 2012, 07:17:07 PM
You're asking these questions like you expect some sort or answer  lol
It appears from a distance as if Defiance couldn't do anything right if their business depended on it...oh, wait...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 12, 2012, 10:24:58 PM
This is one of the thing that's bothering me - the 25mm bases in the frame. They don't have channels (don't know if that's the correct name) to them, how can they injected with plastic? 

Look again.
There are holes just in front of each base. material flows into the cavities through these holes. The sprue is actualy stuck in the mold
They do that so the base would cut lose from the sprue during ejection. (it's only a fraction of a mm thick at that injection point so breaks easily)
We use a similar design in several of our molds at work. It saves the time of cutting the products from the sprue.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 12, 2012, 11:03:14 PM
Why would they need four bases for a two figure sprue?

By the way, don't those test sprues look fantastic!   :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 13, 2012, 07:01:36 AM
what test sprues?
One assumes that was sarcasm... No news of any test sprues from yesterday. Maybe today, eh? o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 13, 2012, 08:54:17 AM
In the related news, DG is apparently working with TrollForged to get the Bugs (that are "in tooling" according to the website) out. Should we make a bet as to if they come out before the Marines? :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 13, 2012, 09:30:03 AM
i would not be surprised if the Bugs comes before the Marines  :-X

posted on 7th March...that was so predictable  :?
Troll forged?i dont know,over all im slightly disappointed with their Quality,i have most of their Resin Mutants they have crisp details but all the separate Hands/Weapons/Head Parts  are nothing but crap.No doubt they can handle the Bugs,not so confident about Multipart "Human" Models though-All of the Troll Forged Soldiers i have were Metal Minis  :?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 13, 2012, 09:31:03 AM
Ooh, I'm so excited to see the test run results tomorrow...
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/usmc-mold-ready-for-testing

(http://defiancegames.com/images/usmc-mold01.jpg)

Doesn't the fact that this still looks like an MS paint quality cut and crop pic bother anyone? And the fact that there appears to be more detail on the underside of the bases than there uber amazing bestest USA rules marines evvvvvaaaaaaa!!!! ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 13, 2012, 09:52:53 AM
what test sprues?


You mean you missed them???!!!!???      ;)

Yeah, me too, and sarcasm is hard On Da Webz.


I'm in for my TFL Hugh Jarce figure and March 23 if that date is open.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 13, 2012, 10:28:47 AM
Doesn't the fact that this still looks like an MS paint quality cut and crop pic bother anyone?
I'm more bothered by the fact that there doesn't appear to be any way to get the plastic to the so-called "bases". If they are in fact bases and not some sort of alignment plugs.

If it is a fake it's a poorly done one. If it's the real deal and the round thingies are bases, it's not finished yet. If it's the real deal and the round things aren't bases, then whoever wrote the news blurb doesn't know what he's talking about. None of those options inspires confidence, but then again I'm sure there are other ones I'm missing.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 13, 2012, 10:36:20 AM
I had offered the figure but don't think I pinned down an exact date, it was a 'after the bugs' type answer I think (though I'm too lazy to go look right now).
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on March 13, 2012, 10:47:19 AM
The sig doesn't appear in every post. I think it's once per page or something similar.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 13, 2012, 02:30:40 PM
I sure didn't remove it.   
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 13, 2012, 03:13:52 PM
they might almost be able to sell something soon... oh wait...

Quote
Actual sprue pics!!!! - but not final sprue pics?

(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422499_367699933262064_184727694892623_1150183_1361438289_n.jpg)

Quote
The first test shots went off yesterday afternoon and the toolmaker was very happy with the result. The whole mold filled - including the four bases at either end. We did get some flashing on several parts - which is the result of too much pressure being applied. They are now checking the problem areas and widening the gates to those parts so that the plastic can flow more smoothly with less pressure. It is better to start off with smaller gates and widen them than to have large once that need to be welded smaller. (Please note this is shot with basic high impact polystyrene - it's not colorized and is translucent - NOT the final plastic) More updates once they do the next shots.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 13, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
so where`s the "very special dynamic Legs then?is that a blurry Pic or is that Flashing on every Part  ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on March 13, 2012, 03:44:09 PM
Looks like flash on every part to me.  Looks like they will give birth to bugs before giving birth to Marines.  Why does this phrase keep running through my head: "They mostly come out with flash.  Mostly."
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 13, 2012, 05:35:17 PM
I refrained from joining the rant so far, but now that I've seen the pic of the test shot and the incredibly stupid explantation that accompagnies it, I've got to say : what a bunch of retards.

molten plastic is a fluid. by narrowing a channel you create a pressure drop, so, if they are going to widen the gates to those parts that get too much pressure they will submit them to even more pressure...
Now theorethicaly, a mold is so rigid, it can't deform. if you put too much pressure on the plastic, you push your mould open, entirely.
If you look at the sprue in the top left corner, you see it isn't filled completely in one corner. one way to overcome this is to put more pressure on the material which in this case would lead to even more flash and you can clearly see that's what they've done with the other sprues.
Another option is to raise the core temperature of the material and/or the mould, giving it better flow capacity so you need less pressure.
Then there's the manner of injecting. You can clearly see that most flash is concentrated around the center (or mainsprue.) If they were to use less pressure at the start of their injection and build up pressure towards the end, it might just be that first material starts to cool round the edges, while still filling the last parts. cool material = no fluid hence no overflow/flash.

So my best bet : this mould is far from ready for production (and if they do widen those gates he's talking about, it's probably ready for the scrap pile)
another possibilty is the injection engineer. Could be they use some amateur that knows how to get plastic in a mould but doesn't know how to do it properly...

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 13, 2012, 08:23:43 PM
Meanwhile those perfidious KA owners of their old business actually seem to have new product out and for what it's worth it actually seems to be an improvement on the old WF.

http://wargamesfactory.com/webstore/world-war-2/wwii-german-infantry-platoon

That really must rub salt into the wound.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 13, 2012, 08:57:50 PM
I think you need a wound first...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on March 13, 2012, 09:51:48 PM
It's a step up from the constant vapor minis but it still doesn't look ready for prime time.  >:(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on March 13, 2012, 09:52:50 PM
Zizi666 : when you expand the channels you lower the pressure.  Narrow them and you increase the pressure.
You got it reversed.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 13, 2012, 10:55:36 PM
It should not be too long before they have product now. Maybe.....

Yep, probably right on March 23rd    ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 14, 2012, 05:03:42 AM
Zizi666 : when you expand the channels you lower the pressure.  Narrow them and you increase the pressure.
You got it reversed.

No, after a narrowing you create a pressure drop. By enlarging the gate the material has less resistance flowing through it and thus maintains the pressure used to inject the material.
Maybe we're looking at it from different sides. I'm referring to the pressure in the actual cavities behind the gates. If you're referring to the pressure buildup in the sprue before the gates, then you're right in saying pressure will drop by enlarging them, but as far as injection molding goes, that's just plain wrong.
fluids always try to take the easiest way, in this case through the gate. The actual creation of flash is because at some point the material can't flow any further and then the pressure builds up high enough to push both mould halves away from each other. This occurs in the cavities, not in the runners.
Again : they need to get the material to the outer parts before that happens ergo they need to widen the cannels to those parts or narrow the gates to the parts closest to the injection point so they don't fill so fast.
OR they need to get a decent injection moulding technician.
It is possible to open up a perfect mould by using way too much injection pressure from the start and too little mould closing pressure, but if that were the case, we'd be talking about a genuine moron.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 14, 2012, 06:08:52 AM
Well, at least they got their test shots off... That doesn't still make the Marines "in stock" but possibly it's a step in that direction.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on March 14, 2012, 08:52:07 AM
Zizi666 : when you expand the channels you lower the pressure.  Narrow them and you increase the pressure.
You got it reversed.
a whider channel make the plastic flow, so the local pressure temporary decrease.
I don't know how exactely the plastic injection goes, but even though they look quite dumb, i think that they know how to make a mould.



Meanwhile those perfidious KA owners of their old business actually seem to have new product out and for what it's worth it actually seems to be an improvement on the old WF.

http://wargamesfactory.com/webstore/world-war-2/wwii-german-infantry-platoon

That really must rub salt into the wound.

lol indeed!

and i have to say. I ALSO LOVE THEM! It is the first WF piece that i like, but it's very great!!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on March 14, 2012, 11:25:32 AM
how on earth do you guys know this stuff?

It's flow mechanics, essentially liquids (most of them) react a certain way to certain conditions.

Zizzi666 and n815e are both correct but they're talking about different effects :)
Essentially if you narrow a channel there is a build up in pressure where the liquid enters the channel and the liquid will pass through the channel at a higher pressure, however where it exits the channel the liquid will be entering a void and the pressure will drop. By widening a channel the flow is maintained and the pressure stays more constant.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on March 14, 2012, 11:43:27 AM
yep, what dewbakuk said. It is not a high pressure tank, the amount of plastic is fixed. but the path it follows could vary by the different channel settings!


how on earth do you guys know this stuff?
Physics... only  (almost) bachelor degree, for now. still young. :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on March 14, 2012, 02:55:16 PM
Penny?  Penny?  Penny?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 14, 2012, 06:37:31 PM
oh so I am in a forum of Sheldon Coopers then.  :D what can I say except Bazinga!

Not sure if that is better or worse than a forum of Sterling Coopers. Of course if that meant I could wear a trilby, smoke, drink martinis and ogle the secretaries, it's almost certainly an improvement.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 14, 2012, 11:02:11 PM
how on earth do you guys know this stuff?

I'm an injection moulding technician for Tupperware (20 years since last monday)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on March 14, 2012, 11:05:36 PM
I'm an injection moulding technician for Tupperware (20 years since last monday)

Kudos!
we've a precious guy here, then! =)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 15, 2012, 02:39:41 AM
So...didn't anyone see the new update? ;D

Quote
2nd test shot went really well today. There is one last bit (one of the small ammo packs) that isn't filling very well. They are planning tweaks and will be trying again tomorrow hopefully. I am heading out to the molder tomorrow to go over the project and grab some test shots so we can assemble some figures and show them off!

No pictures...and still no Marines  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 15, 2012, 06:51:04 AM
I'm an injection moulding technician for Tupperware (20 years since last monday)

That's something you don't hear everyday. Bravely spoken, the man who launched a thousand tupperware parties.  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on March 15, 2012, 10:02:32 AM
Aint nothing wrong with tuppaware. My mother was one of the first to be involved with it in Australia. My parents still have tuppaware from before I was born. (about the same time dinosaurs roamed the earth for the curious.)

Well said...if everything in life was as durable and well designed as Tupperware, the world would be a better place!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on March 15, 2012, 11:04:33 AM
but being allowed to join women at a tupperware party and watch them sample the goods, isn't as much fun as watching them sample the 'other plastic' goods on offer at an Ann Summers party  ;)  :-*
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on March 15, 2012, 12:45:00 PM
but being allowed to join women at a tupperware party and watch them sample the goods, isn't as much fun as watching them sample the 'other plastic' goods on offer at an Ann Summers party  ;)  :-*

...and I bet some people would love the 'other plastic goods' to be as durable as Tupperware  >:D ... and you can't keep chocolate preserved in one of those but in Tupperware, that's a different matter.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ajsalium on March 15, 2012, 02:57:42 PM
So...didn't anyone see the new update? ;D

And how on Earth would I know there are new updates, if Mr. know-it-all-about-business Tony hasn't updated the news section of the Defiance Games site for the last week?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 15, 2012, 03:22:08 PM
Great gaming tip!

Instead of spending money on the fiasco of these marines, buy some tupperware.  The little bowls are fantastic for storing metal bits, landscaping material, and the variety of little parts we all seem to need.

Plus, they exist now!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 15, 2012, 04:47:27 PM
And how on Earth would I know there are new updates, if Mr. know-it-all-about-business Tony hasn't updated the news section of the Defiance Games site for the last week?

It seems that their official site is now their Facebook page and their multiple threads on TMP  lol Nice way to treat their customers, lol.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 15, 2012, 05:49:34 PM
I googled Anne Summers, never heard of it before. So its a party plan where women buy up to foot long models of tyranid hive fleet ships. They were interesting models sorta organic and mechanical all in one. The command bridge at the top rear of the 30" black mamba ship was a nice touch too, still not enough to justify the level of  excitement those women showed over the models though. Sheesh they were not even painted and they had not finished sticking the armament on all those weapon turret blisters running the length of the ship.

Still thay are models that do exist and that has to count for something.

That being said if you are so stupid to google anne summers hoping to see nid stuff..... son, you got rocks in your head. If you do it at work, pack up your desk before hand so you do not leave anything behind when they sack you on the spot.

Ah, right, over here theyr'e called Upperdare parties ...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 15, 2012, 06:02:32 PM
That's something you don't hear everyday. Bravely spoken, the man who launched a thousand tupperware parties.  :D

Well, not really. I don't host parties, I work the weekend graveyard shift in the factory, so no histerical women  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 15, 2012, 07:39:05 PM
Quote
Oh Caesar (whoever you are) – now you're just being rude. On the road back from the toolmaker with the latest test shots and we're very happy with the results. All the detail is crisp and lovely. Once I get back to Boston and put the kiddies to bed I'll assemble a few and show them off.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 15, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
have to agree with Tony,Sure it was/is Funny but i dont want to see them fail.Hopefully they finally "pulling the Triggers" and get Things done.
It doesnt Matter how loud you scream,you`ll be getting 3 Legs,2 Torsos and 1 Backpack on the Sprue  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 16, 2012, 01:17:14 AM
Still no pictures, just words (on Facebook).

As of 7 minutes ago:

Quote
Having fun assembling some plastic Marines right now! The one head I was concerned about (with the Marine cap) has become my favorite of the bunch (although the full face mask helmet is pretty deadly looking!) I'm working to put together a full 12 man squad and then take some pics tomorrow in the light. As soon as I get some decent pics I'll post them up.

So...tomorrow we'll get pictures.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 16, 2012, 01:21:48 AM
 The one head I was concerned about (with the Marine cap) has become my favorite of the bunch (although the full face mask helmet is pretty deadly looking!)  ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 16, 2012, 08:14:17 AM
So are you suggesting that these Marines are modelled on Flavor Flav? I don't see it myself, needs chunkier bling, timepieces in particular. Chuck D, well maybe I could buy that.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 16, 2012, 01:36:27 PM
So are you suggesting that these Marines are modelled on Flavor Flav? I don't see it myself, needs chunkier bling, timepieces in particular. Chuck D, well maybe I could buy that.

Not to mention you'd need several figs doing a stance or pointing towards people in the public they'd like to see removed.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 16, 2012, 03:34:26 PM
Quote from: Caeser on TMP
Not evil, just silly. Who doesn't like options? Back when I played 40K they provided one with a lot of great "bits" that were useful. They didn't give you a lot of useless extra arms, heads and legs. That's a major difference you are missing here. Holsters, guns, kit -- all fabulous.
But in your DG UMC box if 24 marines you will have leftover:

*12 extra pairs of legs!
*36 extra "weapon arms" (at least you can cut off the weapons).
*24 extra left arms!
*48 spare heads!
*Probably no spare pouches or backpacks!

Mostly useless and hardly "free". Not a lot of great "bits box" material there.
A single backpack versus an entire model. It's not a difficult choice, really.

of course, I'm sure he's just a hater...  ;D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Hrothgar on March 16, 2012, 05:25:20 PM
I'm by no means a fan of Defiance Games, Tony, and company, but the leftover bits selection onlined doesn't sound bad to me at all. In fact, it makes me far more likely that I will pick up a box.

*I've loads of extra torsos lying about that could use some extra legs (legs are always more expensive than torsos in the ebay bitz stores anyway)

*I've a ton of Warzone Imperial plastics sans arms that I used for other projects. The idea of cutting off their upper arms/shoulder plates and replacing them with these extra arms and popping different heads on them could give me a nicely sized force of irregular planetary militia type troops.

*extra bases are always wecomed

All in all, this development, nonsensical as it is for the product itself, would be quite a boon for my evil plans for (miniature) world domination.  ;D

All that being said, if they ever actually do make it in to production, I will proabably keel over from the shock before I could do anything about it.  :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 16, 2012, 07:19:52 PM
Quote
Not great weather for priming - getting that nasty beady-ness going on. Will try again

you have to be kidding?    lol lol lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 16, 2012, 07:47:42 PM
 lol Will wait for Monday then,again  lol there goes my Confidence...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 17, 2012, 07:51:55 AM
We're getting closer!!

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-assemble01.jpg)

from:  http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/assembled-marine-plastic-first-look

 (http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/assembled-marine-plastic-first-look)
I bet they make on it my date.    ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on March 17, 2012, 08:57:35 AM
No close ups yet?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Pil on March 17, 2012, 09:23:50 AM
Of course not, and these have been primed to "show the detail"  lol

Also, look at those dynamic legs!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 17, 2012, 10:14:15 AM
that photo is ridiculous... that is seriously the best he could manage to show off all that great detail? anyone get the feeling he's avoiding something?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 17, 2012, 10:37:57 AM
No close ups yet?

No but an offical press release from Tony:

<paramname="movie"value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIcC8YJrevQ&t=14s

"></param>



:D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dijit on March 17, 2012, 11:06:08 AM
No but an offical press release from Tony:
lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 17, 2012, 11:12:41 AM
 lol lol

i especially love the two Guys hidden behind the Sandbags (or whatever that crappy Scenery supposed to be)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on March 17, 2012, 12:37:13 PM
Next problem will be with the box or box art or some such.  That's my guess.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 17, 2012, 01:04:05 PM
Quote
They will work perfectly as Imperial Guard. Plus theyll be cheaper and Better and made in the USA!
lol lol lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on March 17, 2012, 01:18:40 PM
That is good news. Yay!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 17, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
According to Richard Gaulding (on Facebook), all the people that are claiming for close-ups are wrong  lol

Quote
Richard Gaulding Yep, just like I suspected: shapeless blobs of plastic lacking even the most basic of details.

That's sarcasm: they look great and I can see the details in just that blurry shot.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 17, 2012, 03:22:21 PM
They don't look too bad - for the life of me, though, I can't understand why he'd want to photograph them on a gaming board. Just the figures please!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 17, 2012, 03:53:42 PM
According to Richard Gaulding (on Facebook), all the people that are claiming for close-ups are wrong  lol
Quote
Richard Gaulding Yep, just like I suspected: shapeless blobs of plastic lacking even the most basic of details.

That's sarcasm: they look great and I can see the details in just that blurry shot.

I can't... no fingers certainly... the ribs on the top of the gun are more visible, but that's about all you can say from that image...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 17, 2012, 03:54:10 PM
They don't look too bad - for the life of me, though, I can't understand why he'd want to photograph them on a gaming board. Just the figures please!

smoke and mirrors...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 17, 2012, 09:11:55 PM
they're certainly going around the houses to not show anyone any decent shots of the sprues or the figures...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 17, 2012, 09:18:26 PM
http://www.facebook.com/DefianceGames

and ffs, Arnie was Dutch in Predator, Carl Weathers was Dillon in the cap... you see a head in a cap and go on about how it's someone who wasn't Bill Duke but was black, at least get the right fricking person... it's only a head in a cap... nothing else looks like Dillon - he had two HK94's...  >:( >:( >:( >:(

that bugs me everytime I look at that train wreck...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on March 17, 2012, 09:59:52 PM
So got paint some minis and stop looking......
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 17, 2012, 10:26:29 PM
I've got loads of g/s stuff in the way... waiting for about 5 different projects to set  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 18, 2012, 12:31:21 AM
The pictures are at least a move forward, but based on what I can (or can't) see, I won't purchase yet.

But, I'm not hating them. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 18, 2012, 04:29:18 PM
Mr Giraffe, chillax man.

I've been ill - think I'm going stir crazy...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 19, 2012, 09:11:36 AM
OK so now they maybe actually have them in stock so that paritcular problem of misinforming the clients has been cleared. Now to see when they actually will deliver...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 19, 2012, 09:37:14 AM
What makes you think they may actually be in stock? 

They still haven't gotten the molds and casting right was what I thought.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 19, 2012, 12:06:29 PM
Well, they did have assembled marines from the prerun to show already so I don't think saying they "maybe" having something to sell by today isn't all that strong a statement... Admittedly, that was on Friday so it's admittedly quite optimistic.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on March 19, 2012, 01:28:45 PM
Believe me, when they finally do produce these things Tony will announce it like it was the second coming.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 19, 2012, 02:11:39 PM
The Marines do seem to share certain feature with that particular event - namely that according to people who claim to be in the know, both are to come real soon :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 19, 2012, 09:27:18 PM
I guess those "In Stock!" marines are still not even in production....   

They better get on the ball or my date will pass  >:(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on March 20, 2012, 12:34:01 AM
Believe me, when they finally do produce these things Tony will announce it like it was the second coming.

Keep some Kleenex handy.

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Digitarii on March 20, 2012, 03:26:19 AM
Keep some Kleenex handy.

Allen

 lol

In comedy, timing is everything!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 21, 2012, 09:20:17 AM
Still no news about second coming Marines shipping I see. Ah well, maybe tomorrow... :`
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 21, 2012, 09:30:51 AM
I suspect we get news on the molds actually being production ready first.

Then there will be a shortage/delay in the plastic they need to cast these.
 :o
Then the new plastic will have slightly different properties requiring new test shots and channel cutting adventures.
 ::)
Then the boxes will have issues (wrong size/misprinted cover/something)
 :-[
Then the initial shipment from the factory to Defiance will be highjacked by meth head pygmies weilding chainsaws.
 ???

Still a long way to go in the saga of the Defiance Marines.
 :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Londoncopper on March 21, 2012, 07:06:51 PM
There has been no trumpets, fanfare, whistles or bells about the boxes yet, we must have this before anything is released, plus a little back story about the packing staff!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: TheShadow on March 21, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
There has been no trumpets, fanfare, whistles or bells about the boxes yet, we must have this before anything is released, plus a little back story about the packing staff!

probably how he went to loompa land and arranged to pay them in chocolate beans.....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 21, 2012, 10:57:46 PM
probably how he went to loompa land and arranged to pay them in chocolate beans.....

Paisley, pictured below, wants to inform the group that those 'chocolate beans' were made special for Defiance.   :D

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/CptJake_Minis/P5010007.jpg)

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: twrchtrwyth on March 22, 2012, 01:57:09 AM
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 22, 2012, 06:51:03 AM
Hmmmmmmmmmmm barbequed goat  :P Yummy.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 22, 2012, 11:51:03 AM
She is old and tough.  I doubt she would taste good at this point.

She also enjoys head butting dogs, which can be entertaining.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 22, 2012, 07:44:48 PM
She is old and tough.  I doubt she would taste good at this point.

Meat getting a bit tough? Ok try this, it's absolutely delicious, one of my favourite northeastern dishes:

http://flavorsofbrazil.blogspot.com.au/2009/10/nitty-gritty-on-buchada.html

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 22, 2012, 10:02:52 PM
Meat getting a bit tough? Ok try this, it's absolutely delicious, one of my favourite northeastern dishes:

http://flavorsofbrazil.blogspot.com.au/2009/10/nitty-gritty-on-buchada.html



Never been a big liver or tripe fan, but with all the other stuff cooked in that may be worth trying.


The top picture makes it looked fried, is it?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on March 22, 2012, 11:56:38 PM
Are those chocolated beans a render or an actual product?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 23, 2012, 12:04:27 AM
Are those chocolated beans a render or an actual product?

- in stock! you can order them right now  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 23, 2012, 05:17:18 AM
Ooh! So exciting! o_o
Quote
USMC mold is 99.9% ready to go. There are two last bit tweaks needed, but as you can see - the Marines are about to hit the beaches!* We will update everyone next week on when to expect these guys in your mailboxes and at your Friendly Local Game Shop!
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news

---

*) Thought these were the space kind of Marines tho, not the sea kind.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 23, 2012, 07:03:44 AM
Never been a big liver or tripe fan, but with all the other stuff cooked in that may be worth trying.


The top picture makes it looked fried, is it?


No, you cook it up in a big pot of salted water. Think of it as a Brazilian haggis. My wife hates it, I love it, so it's an occasional treat when in Brazil.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Inso on March 23, 2012, 08:45:13 AM
Is there any news on the marines yet?

It seems to have all gone quiet... o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 23, 2012, 03:32:21 PM
From DG website:

Quote
FINAL USMC MOLD TWEAK COMMENCING!

Posted in News Category
We're VERY excited and relieved to have received the following pictures from the toolmaker today. The 3rd round of mold tweaks and test shots has gone extremely well and the USMC mold is 99.9% ready to go. There are two last bit tweaks needed, but as you can see - the Marines are about to hit the beaches!

We will update everyone next week on when to expect these guys in your mailboxes and at your Friendly Local Game Shop! Thanks again for your patience through all the trials and tribulations! (Also next week we'll reveal the little "thank you" bonus plastic figure that every pre-order will receive!)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test01.jpg)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test02.jpg)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test03.jpg)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test04.jpg)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test05.jpg)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test06.jpg)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test07.jpg)

(http://www.defiancegames.com/images/usmc-test08.jpg)

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 23, 2012, 03:34:29 PM
there is still a lot wrong there though... weird arm that looks like fabric, eyes on the bare head aren't even level, cuts on the armour look very soft and the helmets still have the CAD polygons showing... not terrible, but not the whizzbangsuperbestestever that DG have been going on about...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on March 23, 2012, 03:34:58 PM
What's with all the sheeting between the arm and the gun stock?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on March 23, 2012, 03:38:18 PM
What's with all the sheeting between the arm and the gun stock?

part of the stock.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on March 23, 2012, 04:04:49 PM
Those sprues look fair to me. Not that I'm holding my breath, but if/when they ever come out, it might be worth picking up a box.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on March 23, 2012, 04:07:18 PM
Those sprues look fair to me. Not that I'm holding my breath, but if/when they ever come out, it might be worth picking up a box.

same for me. interesting. not wow, but might be worth of a purchase. maybe.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 23, 2012, 04:07:43 PM
part of the stock.

 ???

If so, that is a dumb design.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 23, 2012, 04:55:19 PM
part of the stock.

Yes, that's part of the stock. I think they were trying to do a stock like this:

(http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/BullDog_762_Bullpup_M14_M1A_Rifle_Chassis_Stock_System_NYPD_Det._Patrick_OConner_Truck_front.jpg)

Sorry for the pic, it's the only one I have right now.

Of course that design looks great in bullpup weapons. That isn't the case in the weapons used by the DF Marines
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 23, 2012, 05:01:51 PM
bullpup?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Comsquare on March 23, 2012, 05:05:36 PM
bullpup?

Check that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 23, 2012, 05:05:53 PM
bullpup?

Yep:

Quote
"Bullpup" describes a modern firearm configuration in which the action is located behind the trigger group and alongside the shooter's face, so there is no wasted space for the buttstock as in conventional designs. This permits a shorter firearm length for the same barrel length for improved maneuverability, and reduces weight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup

I love that kind of weapons, they really look "futuristic"
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ajsalium on March 23, 2012, 05:13:25 PM
and the helmets still have the CAD polygons showing...

Not. That is the way they are designed, "pixelated" so to speak.
I guess they thought it made them look more futuristic.

They look OKish. Pretty much like any other plastic range, including the old em4minis.
I may buy a pack if they mix up well with GW's tau fire warriors, to make some conversions.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 23, 2012, 05:21:19 PM
Not. That is the way they are designed, "pixelated" so to speak.
I guess they thought it made them look more futuristic.

because blocky is always good...

(http://2wheeltuesday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/epic-fail.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 23, 2012, 05:25:05 PM
It still looks like an attempt at a folding stock with flash to me.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on March 23, 2012, 05:38:11 PM
Yep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup

I love that kind of weapons, they really look "futuristic"

right... so shouldn't there be more mass in the stock at the same level as the barrel then? if it's essentially all barrel?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on March 23, 2012, 06:10:22 PM
right... so shouldn't there be more mass in the stock at the same level as the barrel then? if it's essentially all barrel?

Yes, if that was a true bullpup design, this isn't.

I guess the guy who designed the gun was like me - "hey, I like this kind of gun, let's see if I can design a stock like that."- and forgot to design the rest of the gun accordingly. But hey...with their flippers hands the stock/flash/strange gun are the least of their problems, lol.

CptJake mentioned that it could be an attempt at a folding stock, but seeing the original art for the Marines, that doesn't look like it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on March 23, 2012, 06:10:35 PM
part of the stock.

Ah, yes.  My mistake.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on March 24, 2012, 12:16:18 AM
right... so shouldn't there be more mass in the stock at the same level as the barrel then? if it's essentially all barrel?

Nop,  bullpup means the loader is situated behind the trigger, which isn't the case with these guns, so definitly no bullpup.
Only reason I can think of to fill up that stock is as a compartment for tools (maintenance of the rifle) like they did in the old days...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 24, 2012, 12:18:41 AM
Nop,  bullpup means the loader is situated behind the trigger, which isn't the case with these guns, so definitly no bullpup.
Only reason I can think of to fill up that stock is as a compartment for tools (maintenance of the rifle) like they did in the old days...


It isn't shaped right for that.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 24, 2012, 06:43:54 AM
I'll be honest, whilst these aren't my cup of tea, they don't look too bad. Quality wise, I'd say close to Hasegawa's 1/72 hard plastic figures, circa the early 1980s, in terms of definition and detail.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on March 24, 2012, 09:31:06 AM
I think they're as bad as I thought they would be (hey, am I ever wrong? lol). The bare head is hilarious, has the dude suffered a stroke that the whole left side of his face is drooping? What little detail there is it's all wrong and soft. Not for me, thanks.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 24, 2012, 11:16:40 AM
it looks like it ejects the round through the upper part of the stock. Its the only ejector port I can see on the weapon.

To me it looks like a cut out to keep weight down/allow sliding of the stock.   Way too long for an ejection port.

The other thing that is annoying me is the SAW.   Asinine design.   Without a stock how would a guy use the under barrel grenade launcher they stuck on it.   Seriously, how would a trooper hold that and have a chance of aiming it while firing?  "They have electronic aiming devices wired to their helmets" is a crap answer.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 24, 2012, 11:32:17 AM
To me it looks like a cut out to keep weight down/allow sliding of the stock.   Way too long for an ejection port.

The other thing that is annoying me is the SAW.   Asinine design.   Without a stock how would a guy use the under barrel grenade launcher they stuck on it.   Seriously, how would a trooper hold that and have a chance of aiming it while firing?  "They have electronic aiming devices wired to their helmets" is a crap answer.


Guys, I think you are over analysing it all. Impractical design for a firearm it's true but I think you need to look at the real inspiration for these weapons....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on March 24, 2012, 02:02:27 PM
I really hate the design of the helmeted heads.  Have to agree the SAW looks odd and useless.  Perhaps some Pig Iron head swaps could make them better but why bother?  They are not living up to the hype. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Digitarii on March 24, 2012, 03:19:19 PM
The weapon designs are a bit "meh", but serviceable. The heads, however, SUCK! Even the bare heads have too much of a "polygon" appearance to them. I think it's going to be either Pig Iron or LAM to the rescue for the heads.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ZuluPaul on March 25, 2012, 10:24:08 AM
Looking at the sprues certainly makes them a "no go" for me.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 26, 2012, 11:15:08 AM
Well, things certainly have progressed a bit over the last two weeks but I'm still seriously in doubt if they can actually ship by the end of the month.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on March 26, 2012, 02:56:51 PM
Tony the sock-puppet strikes again?
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=262457&page=1
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 27, 2012, 07:31:07 AM
I suppose it could be just somebody out to knock Reneda a bit... Didn't Mantic use Reneda, except for the Corporation because they couldn't get an order for those in ???
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on March 27, 2012, 09:32:54 AM
I suppose it could be just somebody out to knock Reneda a bit... Didn't Mantic use Reneda, except for the Corporation because they couldn't get an order for those in ???

Yep. They switched to the resin-plastic stuff because the wait through Renedra would be too long.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 27, 2012, 02:08:50 PM
Update Miniature Pool:

March 28th-Scurv
April 1st-Doctor Pete
April 15th-James Holloway
May 4th-Commander Vyper
May 14th-Old Goat
May 22th-Dr.Falkenhayn
June 3th-Cadet 13
June 4th-Aliensurfer
July 4th-Silversixx

undecided/dont give a F***-Matakishi

in the Miniature Pool we have:
Foundry B-Team,Banana Wars US Marines,Kryomek Cyclos,Salute 2010 Robot/Lady Vignette,Hasselfree Hazmat Team,Golden Matakishi,a selection of 40K Minis,handfull random WW2 BTD Minis,Early War British Command Set (Great War i guess)

all Bets are still on  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 27, 2012, 02:32:47 PM
I'll take May 4th.;) And add a little electic collection of minis into the pot.

The Commander
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 27, 2012, 02:37:43 PM
Im sure you guys could give a plethora of funny excuses tony would use in that situation.

"Well she sure looked like a dame." ( the Ronaldo excuse)

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 27, 2012, 03:43:47 PM
Update Miniature Pool:

March 28th-Scurv
April 1st-Doctor Pete
April 15th-James Holloway
May 4th-Commander Vyper
May 14th-Old Goat
May 22th-Dr.Falkenhayn
June 3th-Cadet 13
June 4th-Aliensurfer
July 4th-Silversixx

undecided/dont give a F***-Matakishi

in the Miniature Pool we have:
Foundry B-Team,Banana Wars US Marines,Kryomek Cyclos,Salute 2010 Robot/Lady Vignette,Hasselfree Hazmat Team,Golden Matakishi,a selection of 40K Minis,handfull random WW2 BTD Minis,Early War British Command Set (Great War i guess)

all Bets are still on   :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 27, 2012, 03:51:29 PM
I had a March date too (I think the 21st or 23rd) and put up a TFL 'Hugh Jarce' mini.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Elwood P Dowd on March 27, 2012, 05:44:42 PM
You do realise the Sock puppet from Delayance Games will probably clean up . lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 27, 2012, 10:46:41 PM
Though I do expect the jammy begger to be in with a good shot with that date.


 lol lol Yeah,March 28th was a bit too confident, not to say foolish  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 28, 2012, 06:55:45 AM
No new news since March 22 so I think those with March dates can kiss their stuff goodbye :-I

ETA: noticed there was just one left - sorry Scurv!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 28, 2012, 09:14:56 AM
All I know is we have a family coat of arms and we used to be dragoons. Would love to figure out what canton we came from so I can do my perry mercs in that cantons colours.

well lets see:the most important Things are the Colors:Red mostly stands for Catholics while Blue stands for Protestants,they all mixed it often with White which stands for Liberty.In the French Part of Switzerland they also used Yellow and Purple (from the French Huggenots) in the Italian and the Rhaeto Romanic Part of Helvetia Black and Green are very common.(Habsburgerians/Austrians)
Whats your Family Name?French or German like? (Chenaux vs Burkhalter) or Italian/Rhaeto Romanic style (rigozzi vs Dumeni Curdin)
Back to Topic-still no News  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on March 28, 2012, 06:53:40 PM
Because I cannot read swiss.
So you can't read German, French, Italian or Romanic?
 ;D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 28, 2012, 10:14:22 PM
I think you should probably stay clear of the topic of the Swiss and gypsies.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 28, 2012, 10:28:07 PM
Whole different league my friend and not an especially funny topic.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 28, 2012, 10:29:37 PM
Still I am now content to think of you herding goats in solitary splendour. Been to the Swiss club in the CBD? I hear the grub isn't bad.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 29, 2012, 12:10:36 AM
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/Steve_Bringolf/Family%20Crest/BringolfFamilyCrest.jpg)

(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/Steve_Bringolf/Family%20Crest/BringolfCrest011.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 29, 2012, 01:09:50 AM
ooh nice,Bringolf is definitely Swiss German,probably the Rhine Area (northern Helvetia  ;))
Gypsies?You mean Pikeys?However we dont like them,basicly we dont like Minarets,the EU,Germans,Austrians....
But besides that we Swiss People were friendly Folks  lol
Ask LAF Member Dave Knight if you dont believe:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=39277.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=39277.0)


Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 29, 2012, 06:48:32 AM
Oi, I want to ask a question about the competition! Does SilverSixx get the stuff if the Marines come out at any time after his date or is there an end limit?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ink the troll on March 29, 2012, 09:17:25 AM
yes he does. His wisdom must be rewarded.

Hey Dr Falk what does Hallauer Wappentafel mean? is that a towns name?

Red for Catholic makes sense as thats what team we bat for.

Swiss German eh. Learn something new every day. I guess that means I have a knack for making very efficent clocks. I like the sound of Swiss German, it sounds all fancy and exotic. I am going to pick up chicks with that.

Do you really want an elephant stamp and a gold star Jake? I figure not as you own a sick cool hog and guys with bikes like that dont need elephant stamps, everyone knows they have an overload of cool already.
Hallau is a place in Switzerland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallau
Wappen= coat of arms/ crest and Tafel= plate,table,... -in this sense usually used for pictures, like in old books where you'll have colour plates (the pics). So it means it's a colour plate depicting the coat of arms of families in/ from Hallau.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 29, 2012, 11:28:55 AM
Scurv hear more Swiss German Language and some fucked up Swiss Tunes here ( iam the Keyboarder/Guitarist btw  ;) )

 Quote Hansi the Bulldog (our biggest/drunkest Fan  lol)

"hello Ladys and Gents those two Cunts at the Bar dont want to sell me any more Beer,im gonna slap you in the Face you Cunts"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LviGEe5gFA&feature=relmfu

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on March 29, 2012, 09:05:04 PM
Actually Scurv, arguably the greatest of all TISM songs (with the honourable exception of 'You'll never be an Old Man River Phoenix) has to be the most appropriate one to this particular thread. Who can go past their all time classic Defecate on My Face.

I'd post a link but the associated video would cause some problems. Worth searching on You Tube
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 30, 2012, 06:45:21 AM
Still no new news on the DG Marines on their site. Ah well, maybe next week... o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on March 30, 2012, 07:38:35 AM
Can't recall. I just looked at their site's news section, didn't notice anything since the 22nd and took my conclusions from that.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 30, 2012, 10:47:08 AM
Wasn't there something about they had to pay the manufacturer to get the sprues and thus everyone pre order more?

 lol lol lol

Good one.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 30, 2012, 07:50:52 PM
I was being serious

yeah i heard about that,i believe it was an official Statement from DG.And i also remember that People started asking what happened to all the Cash from the Kickstarter/Pre Order Funds  :-[



Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 30, 2012, 10:35:50 PM
. I am glad I dont have to use Schaffhausen's banner as it is a rampaging ram with a hard on.  :D

 lol  check this out:Möriken-Wildegg
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Moeriken-Wildegg-blason.png&filetimestamp=20070815185934 (http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Moeriken-Wildegg-blason.png&filetimestamp=20070815185934)

this one is pretty stupid too .
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Wappen_Hendschiken.svg&filetimestamp=20090812150408 (http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Wappen_Hendschiken.svg&filetimestamp=20090812150408)
Hendsche is Swiss German for Glove.So the Name of the Village actually is Glove-ington or Glove-ville,arent we pretty clever?  lol
 
As for the Bringolfs History/Legacy  ;) i can tell you this: Helvetia was founded in 1291,your  Family Wappen shows the 1306 and the "united" Switzerland Flag,so youre Family was either in touch with the Founders or  damn proud to become some of the first Eidgenossen  :o
Google-fu:
 the Battle of Morgarten or the Battle of Sempach,pretty bloody Stuff
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 31, 2012, 02:10:04 AM
I was being serious

 :o

(http://static.ivygateblog.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/923-facepalm.gif)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Elwood P Dowd on March 31, 2012, 06:32:10 PM
Wasn't there something about they had to pay the manufacturer to get the sprues and thus everyone pre order more?

Yes I definitely remember seeing that . Anyone know where ?  I can't seem to find it now .
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ajsalium on March 31, 2012, 06:55:02 PM
Frothers' hate, surely. ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 31, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
Yes I definitely remember seeing that . Anyone know where ?  I can't seem to find it now .

I would love to see the source on that as well.   The self proclaimed Defiance PR Biotch is being a pain on another board and this would be worth posting to rile him up some more.   :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on March 31, 2012, 08:43:40 PM
Sorry, I lost interest for a while, is this still rumbling on?  :o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on March 31, 2012, 11:53:52 PM
Regardless of what all the other guys say, you're okay Scurv.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 02, 2012, 03:06:27 AM
Well, there goes my picked day.  Thought for sure Defiance was going to announce these marines were an April Fools joke.   lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 02, 2012, 08:19:49 AM
No news yesterday. Nor yet on any other day between 22. and 1.4.

I'm confident there's going to be something today. Or if not today, then tomorrow 8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ZuluPaul on April 02, 2012, 09:50:18 AM
I'm shocked we have not heard a firm release date!  (tongue in cheek) :o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 02, 2012, 09:52:21 AM
"Hi David- just put 3 test frames into a pack for you and shipped them off."
I believe something is happening today all being well....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 02, 2012, 09:59:00 AM
Test frames don't count for the competition tho.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 02, 2012, 10:07:03 AM
 lol lol yeah "Test Frames"
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on April 02, 2012, 12:10:28 PM
weren't those ones with all the flash test frames?  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on April 02, 2012, 01:53:28 PM
I agree, test frame isn't the same thing as a release.
Go patriotic, go 4th of July! After all, its Made in America...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: alexgrunt on April 02, 2012, 02:05:40 PM
Just to add some oil to the fire, defiance means mistrust in french.
Maybe Matakishi's right and those minis will turn into vapor (though I hope to be proved wrong, if only for those who preordered them).
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on April 02, 2012, 02:37:56 PM
I do believe that its an extremely bad choise of brand name. Even though they try to tap on the "We are the rebels in miniature gaming bla bla bla". And for some reasons more companies have gone with the same approach. When I start a miniature line, it would be named "Damn Jolly Miniatures".
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 02, 2012, 03:47:17 PM
"Hi David- just put 3 test frames into a pack for you and shipped them off."
I believe something is happening today all being well....

yes, DG can now blame you for any further Delays (sorry Guys were still waiting for the Feedback from our "Testers")
followed by:small Changes here and there.a tweak or two and the Marines are ready to go
followed by estimate to ship in April
to be continued  ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 03, 2012, 06:45:26 AM
No news yesterday. [...] I'm confident there's going to be something today. Or if not today, then tomorrow
Quoted for truth.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 03, 2012, 10:16:15 AM
If these turn into vapor figs and never end up existing in the real world what are we going to with the minis pool?
That was partly why I asked about SilverSixx's bet. Obviously if they never surface but DG keeps going or even if they change format radically from what they are projected to be we get into a bit of trouble.

Quote
Imagine the stats for 'the glorious leader' and what the fig would look like. I bet he would have awsome special rules like 'death to capitalism', 'Awe of the people' with wargear like Boiler suit of invincibility, platform shoes of ultra tallness and eye of the master director
Are you trying to imply that the glorious leader is unusually short IRL. I do believe a visit to an educational facility awaits you...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 03, 2012, 10:16:49 AM
Dang.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 03, 2012, 11:04:44 AM
I hear there are limited edition Nork figures that are FinelyCast from rice cakes and are edible!   People stand in line for days to get a squad of them.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 03, 2012, 11:53:51 AM
I've just received three 'test-frames' and apart from the flash (easily dealt with anyway) which I understand they're trying to eradicate they're actually pretty good. The detail is a little vague in places but they'll paint up a treat. Bare heads are very good and all hands have fingers! Full review, build up and WIP painting to follow on the blog.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 03, 2012, 12:06:46 PM
Cheers! Sounds like they aren't abysmally bad then. Hopefully they can get the real thing on to market soon, they are certainly affordable enough when released.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 03, 2012, 12:59:54 PM
I don't claim to know who coined the term Nork, or when, but it has been slang for them in the US Army for a while.

In a similar vein, as I was going through the mil intel school, we had an exercise where we had to take on th eroles of a Div staff and plan a counter attack into N Korea.  I was the Div G2 (intel guy).  One of the items I had to brief was the North Korean Center of Gravity (that which the enemy relies on and if you take it away you can more easily defeat them).  Yes, I knew the text book answer they wanted was their Arty.   

Well, we had some general officer take our brief and I briefed:  Sir, I have identified the North Korean CoG as 'People Named Kim'.  If we were to destroy 60-70% of 'People Named Kim' it would lead to the defeat of the Norks.   :o

For some reason he didn't see the humor in that.   ::)

 That is what they get for turning a hard core combat arms guy inti an intel guy.   ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 03, 2012, 07:30:42 PM
Curiously enough, norks is also an old Australian slang expression for breasts. Yet to see any exquisitely crafted from rice cakes but I'm open to the prospect.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Plynkes on April 03, 2012, 07:36:23 PM
I didn't know it was Australian in origin. It's quite a popular and common term here in Blighty.

Nice to learn new things.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 03, 2012, 08:01:36 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/305582_352766628102400_148389741873424_1003220_593831067_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ray Rivers on April 03, 2012, 08:37:59 PM
Looks pretty cool actually.

Though I would probably do a Pig Iron head swap.  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 03, 2012, 08:43:36 PM
Ugg boots and what appears to be a toasted sandwich maker on his head. I'd say that's very cool.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 03, 2012, 08:48:00 PM
Meh.  Nice paint work...still not excited about the figure. :-[
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 03, 2012, 08:48:46 PM
...what appears to be a toasted sandwich maker on his head...

I won't be able to unsee that.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 03, 2012, 08:59:24 PM
Get  more use from your figures.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 03, 2012, 09:03:27 PM
the Helmet reminds me of this

(http://7grad.org/Exkursionen/Atlantikwall/Hanstholm_Batterie1__Atlantikwall_003.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Penchour on April 03, 2012, 10:09:06 PM
... still not convinced? And that helmet is still awful  :?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 03, 2012, 11:10:54 PM
where did that pic come from? Have they finally released these? Whats going on? And yes the helmet is pants

from their FB Page,there is also a Pic of the Sprue

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=418861938128484&set=o.184727694892623&type=1&permPage=1 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=418861938128484&set=o.184727694892623&type=1&permPage=1)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 03, 2012, 11:59:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBSuOzNVzFE&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBSuOzNVzFE&feature=player_embedded)

Production is ongoing.... 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ZuluPaul on April 04, 2012, 12:02:15 AM
Production may have started but they still haven't released them & I'm not very interested in these after seeing the one painted miniature.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 04, 2012, 02:44:20 AM
I've just received three 'test-frames' and apart from the flash (easily dealt with anyway) which I understand they're trying to eradicate they're actually pretty good. The detail is a little vague in places but they'll paint up a treat. Bare heads are very good and all hands have fingers! Full review, build up and WIP painting to follow on the blog.

Argghhh...paint faster! Faster!! I really want to see them with a true paintjob  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 04, 2012, 08:15:57 AM
Production is ongoing....
Hmm, the unofficially official DG rep "Richard Gaulding" said on the TMP that the video is evidence for the Marines being "officially in stock". Since I don't watch videos by they way of evidence as a rule... Which is it?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on April 04, 2012, 08:53:25 AM
Hmm, the unofficially official DG rep "Richard Gaulding" said on the TMP that the video is evidence for the Marines being "officially in stock". Since I don't watch videos by they way of evidence as a rule... Which is it?

The video shows nice clean sprues being cast and piled up. It doesn't show them being boxed, wrapped or stocked and it's quite clearly at the plastic manufacturers not Defiance. Therefore, not 'in stock'. However, if they have people to box them etc then they could easily be in stock by the time this video was on the web.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Pil on April 04, 2012, 08:58:27 AM
Of course they are in stock, just check their site!

(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd516/arjenpilon/defiancegames.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 04, 2012, 09:10:28 AM
Judging by the box art they've not only got 50% more legs they also have 100% more heads. Clearly a pitch to collectors in Tasmania and the Ozarks.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 04, 2012, 09:12:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-itkO9ia8
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 04, 2012, 09:20:24 AM
However, if they have people to box them etc then they could easily be in stock by the time this video was on the web.
Well, sure, but the video is no evidence of that then. Thx!

All the same, they might actually be in stock (no really, not just in the DG sense) today or tomorrow.

So, who's got the best chance of winning the competition? I want to be on the bandwagon 8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on April 04, 2012, 09:28:34 AM
Lol. the video seems to be more interested in presenting the central pin than the actual product?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 04, 2012, 09:31:17 AM
Now now. Don't be a hater :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on April 04, 2012, 09:35:11 AM
At least there is a product now!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 04, 2012, 09:58:23 AM
Ok I looked it up. If the actual product really-honestly-not-kidding-this-time-not-even-a-little does ship by April 8 then Doctor Pete wins. So there are still three days of Doc P FTW!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on April 04, 2012, 10:12:27 AM
Maybe the company needs to take a leaf out of the Perrys' site.  They show their plastic green figures a year or so in advance, but make no pretence about their production schedule.  No one gets upset, they just wait patiently ( well, not really that patiently) and no one gives them any stick for it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 04, 2012, 10:18:54 AM
well it has been said before:They will announce it like the 2nd coming-behold the Sprue  lol
Hopefully theyre having more than one "Production Machine" otherwise there will be no Easter Holidays for Pablo,Jose and Miguel (made in the US, remember  ;))
Product looks ok though  ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on April 04, 2012, 10:51:43 AM
Hopefully they learn from this and STFU next time. Design a model, maybe show it off, make a mold, produce it, then hype the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 04, 2012, 10:57:45 AM
Yes, quite a bit of the so-called hating was due to "available for purchase but not eligible for delivery" approach which dragged on for ca. 4 months. It should've been made much clearer that you are placing a preorder with no real fixed delivery date than it ever was - regardless of the spin DG or the reps (official or otherwise) are putting on it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 04, 2012, 11:20:28 AM
Even if these get sent to the pre-order people and not sold off at a show to raise more cash (as they've done before) Defiance still won't have any money for a follow on set and we'll live through this whole debacle again with slightly different 'reasons' for the 'inexplicable' delays that follow as they frantically try to sell more pre-orders to gullible fans to raise capital.

However, these haven't shipped yet, there is no news about boxes (and who believes there wouldn't be a fanfare that they were printed if they actually had any to show?), the Postal service can still 'screw up', the website software can 'lose' orders etc. etc. before anyone sees anything other than test sprues.

I'll believe it when a paying customer or a retailer has these in their hands and not before.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 04, 2012, 12:27:43 PM
Indeed that is the only thing that matters as per competition: a fully functional product. I assume dwartist's preorder is still standing..?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 04, 2012, 12:59:55 PM
I bet that pre-orders from Defiance will ship without boxes.   Retailers like the WarStore will have to wait for packaging.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 04, 2012, 01:20:39 PM
Indeed that is the only thing that matters as per competition: a fully functional product. I assume dwartist's preorder is still standing..?

Yep! I ordered these for the conversion potential of plastic figures but these will be 'enhanced' rather than altered. I like them.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 04, 2012, 01:26:14 PM
Lol. the video seems to be more interested in presenting the central pin than the actual product?

Perhaps the central pin can be used for the third leg??
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 04, 2012, 02:10:45 PM
Yep! I ordered these for the conversion potential of plastic figures
Excellent! Then the competition can be resolved by you receiving the (reaL) minis and declaring the postage stamp send date. Alternatively we can use a date when they appear in a "trusted" shop's stock list as in stock, where the level of trust should probably be determined by Matakishi, no?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 04, 2012, 05:34:17 PM
New painted pics, from their Facebook page lol:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/548596_419644608050217_100000140451664_1822358_30954141_n.jpg)

We really need a Dwartist paintjob on them  :?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: emperorpenguin on April 04, 2012, 06:43:37 PM
Maybe the company needs to take a leaf out of the Perrys' site.  They show their plastic green figures a year or so in advance, but make no pretence about their production schedule.  No one gets upset, they just wait patiently ( well, not really that patiently) and no one gives them any stick for it.

One guy got upset over on Warseer http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?325659-Defiance-Games-Alien-Wars/page8 and surprisingly enough he was defending Defiance
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ray Rivers on April 04, 2012, 06:53:52 PM
Yep! I ordered these for the conversion potential of plastic figures but these will be 'enhanced' rather than altered. I like them.

I would tend to agree here.

I'd order a snot load of Pig Iron stuff (heads, pouches, backpacks etc.) and maybe some Hasselfree weapons and it would appear you could put together some fairly cool miniatures.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 04, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I would tend to agree here.

I'd order a snot load of Pig Iron stuff (heads, pouches, backpacks etc.) and maybe some Hasselfree weapons and it would appear you could put together some fairly cool miniatures.

Which greatly detracts from the "But They Are So Cheap!" argument for these being 'good'. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on April 04, 2012, 11:40:35 PM
I'm still not happy that they arn't out yet or that I am going to have to go find where I change my address so I can get my order because when I ordered these in December and I have moved since then.  I'm not happy about those things and since I put money down I have a right to be. 

However some of you seem pretty invested in your position that these have to suck because you have been negative about them from the get go.  They look fine to me.  Better than some things out there but not as good as others.  If they get things rolling they will be a good value and a nice addition to the non "Gothic" selection of sci-fi troopers.  If they are not to your taste don't buy them. 

They don't look too bad to me even in a less than professional paint job. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on April 04, 2012, 11:54:59 PM
Yep, I agree, they don't look bad at all.

I still won't drop a dime on them until I see more shots, and certainly not until they are IN STOCK for real.

But, the business model still seems broke, and they'll face a huge uphill PR climb to get back in the good graces of painters/gamers/collectors.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 05, 2012, 12:03:00 AM
Yep, I agree, they don't look bad at all...

I have to agree with that (I'll buy some minis once I can buy them from stores other than the DG one) but I also have to agree with everyone who mentioned that damm helmet. There's no way a soldier could have lateral vision with that kind of setup. Only if the helmet sides were transparent  :?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on April 05, 2012, 12:14:30 AM
Yep, I agree, they don't look bad at all.

I still won't drop a dime on them until I see more shots, and certainly not until they are IN STOCK for real.

But, the business model still seems broke, and they'll face a huge uphill PR climb to get back in the good graces of painters/gamers/collectors.

I am with you on that.  I've seen many startup game companies shoot themsleves in the foot like this.  It's a shame too because the fanbois don't understand that even the larger more sucessful companies started out small and had problems. 

I hope things get better for them but I think the frustration from the people who have paid money and not recieved their product is legit.  I also understand why others would want to be cautious with their money. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 06:49:00 AM
As of this morning, the DG webstore still says "preorder" and the news don't mention the Second Coming Marines shipping.

In the actual news, on TMP "Richard Gaulding" has promised to throw in a sprue of the Marines to go to the lucky winner of our competition, which by his word should be Doc P. Of course we won't take his word but that doesn't mean he is dishonest about this.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 06:52:37 AM
I still won't drop a dime on them until I see more shots, and certainly not until they are IN STOCK for real.
I won't drop a dime on these period, but I might buy some of DG bugs and perhaps some other set they might or might not be able to come up somewhere down the line.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: manatic on April 05, 2012, 07:04:06 AM
These don't look half bad. I'm waiting for my reviewer's set, I'll be sure to let you know when they arrive.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 05, 2012, 07:55:32 AM
As of this morning, the DG webstore still says "preorder" and the news don't mention the Second Coming Marines shipping.

In the actual news, on TMP "Richard Gaulding" has promised to throw in a sprue of the Marines to go to the lucky winner of our competition, which by his word should be Doc P. Of course we won't take his word but that doesn't mean he is dishonest about this.

I quote myself from TMP:

Quote
Honestly, they're not "in stock" right now -- I'm not sure what the status on the boxes is, since, iirc, Tony was holding off on printing them until the mold was actually complete. No sense having a thousand of so boxes printing off if the final mold revision melts the damned thing, right?

So . . . it'll probably be more like a few days or a week until things actually start shipping. I could be wrong, though, since Tony has been pretty quiet lately and may have already gone ahead with the box printing. Plastic could be winging its way out right now for all I know.

Mainly, I'm just tugging Cpt Jake's chain since he's been harping about the "in stock" thing for months.


And that's not "sprue," it's "Box": as in a box of 24 Defiance Games USMC to whoever wins the pool, or comes closest, courtesy of me, complete with nice note.

-Richard
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on April 05, 2012, 08:40:25 AM
Welcome to LAF Richard :)

They look fine to me.  Better than some things out there but not as good as others.  If they get things rolling they will be a good value and a nice addition to the non "Gothic" selection of sci-fi troopers.  If they are not to your taste don't buy them.  

I think they're looking better than previous shots and vastly superior to those terrible preview prints! I agree with others that those helmets are rubbish, but then I've been of that opinion since the artwork was first shown way, way back. I also really dislike those feet/boots, peoples legs go in at the bottom, especially in military boots and combats.

Final opinion however depends on what people other than Defiance show and if/when I see them in the shops in person.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 09:00:20 AM
And that's not "sprue," it's "Box": as in a box of 24 Defiance Games USMC to whoever wins the pool, or comes closest, courtesy of me, complete with nice note
Ok, I stand corrected on that as I was going by the memory alone. More glory to the winner. Once we can determine the winner.

It's interesting to note that you say that you were yanking Jake's chain with your recent posts about Marines being in stock over at TMP, because... But I think I'll just let Jake take this from here ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 05, 2012, 09:34:24 AM
Welcome to LAF Richard :)


 :?  :-[  :-X
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 09:35:43 AM
Now now, don't be a hater...

Wait, is there an echo here? :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on April 05, 2012, 09:39:33 AM
Play nice boys.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 10:31:13 AM
If this is all about stiring people up
...which, incidentally, might soon be illegal in some parts of U.S. of A:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57409617-93/arizona-pushes-law-to-make-annoying-comments-illegal

Or perhaps not.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on April 05, 2012, 11:15:13 AM
IMHO that paint job tells you everything that you need to know about DG's attitude to quality and their way of doing business. Half-assed, as just barely competent as you can get away with and that's just what the minis are too. I cant understand the posts about "well, they'd look ok if you replaced the arms and weapons" so basically they're shoddy "dollies", if I knew there was a market for scifi body blanks then I'd have sculpted them myself! The bottom line is that they're cheap and that's why you need to justify their existence but in reality that's all they are- cheap.
I'd think long and hard about giving whatever frugal amount of $$ to a company with a track record of holding onto those $$ for months and months without any return.
In fact if their clients had put their pre-order money into a savings account for this long they'd have built up enough interest to buy decent minis.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 05, 2012, 11:21:24 AM
How do the logistics of this work out?  Does the winner have to post his address (or just PM it to everyone)? and we all send him what we promised?  I know some folks don't like posting private info like that... 

Who gets to travel around with a bat to 'encourage' any reneggers?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 11:28:19 AM
I guess we can work that out once the competition finishes, but obviously if the winner wants to get his stuff he will need to reveal some sort of an address. Perhaps the winnings can be delivered poste restante.

As for encouragement, I think public humiliation here on the forum will work :P
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 05, 2012, 11:38:12 AM
I'm happy for people to have my address, it's on my website anyway, so I'm happy to collate the winnings here and then post them on to the actual winner at my expense. I'll stick my address up here once (if) we have a winner.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 11:55:02 AM
U da man!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XAcI3L7crKo/TiXl_3k4HeI/AAAAAAAAAE4/H82QR6gG1IM/s1600/young-man-thumbs-up.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on April 05, 2012, 12:00:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBSuOzNVzFE&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBSuOzNVzFE&feature=player_embedded)

Production is ongoing.... 

I feel sorry for Howard.  That pained expression...

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 05, 2012, 12:11:52 PM
I feel sorry for Howard.  That pained expression...

Allen

I thought the same thing when I first watched it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on April 05, 2012, 12:14:47 PM
The eye movements, the swallowing: all indicate stress.  As if someone had just said, "Say something nice, Howard, or you go back in the little room with Otto and the electrodes."

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 12:34:45 PM
Now now, don't...

Oops sorry.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: AKULA on April 05, 2012, 12:40:50 PM
most telling piece of that video is 40 seconds in - ie where most of the sprues will end up....the bin.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 05, 2012, 01:02:28 PM
If they are completed, I'm very glad. I'll be especially glad if they ship soon. Not too soon, you understand. Not over Easter or anything crazy like that. Maybe in about ... a week or so.

Yes, that seems like a fine time for them to ship.

 :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 05, 2012, 01:11:46 PM

March 28th-Scurv
April 1st-Doctor Pete
April 15th-James Holloway
May 4th-Commander Vyper
May 14th-Old Goat
May 22th-Dr.Falkenhayn
June 3th-Cadet 13
June 4th-Aliensurfer
July 4th-Silversixx


Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 05, 2012, 01:26:07 PM
Hmm, I thought it was "who gets closest" kinda game? If so, Doc P still has all the days until April 7 covered and James only takes over on April 9. April 8 is sort of a tie since I don't know if we can find out if the boxes shipped to a trusted arbitrator before or after noon... So let's hope they don't ship then shall we :)

As for now, all indeed does seem a little quiet on the real issue, namely the actual "in stock" date of the DG Marines. But maybe there'll be news on Tuesday - Happy Easter and see you then folks!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: n815e on April 05, 2012, 03:01:12 PM
Quote
And that's not "sprue," it's "Box": as in a box of 24 Defiance Games USMC to whoever wins the pool, or comes closest, courtesy of me, complete with nice note.

How about throwing in enough torsos that the winner won't get stuck with a box full of extra arms, legs and heads?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 05, 2012, 03:47:14 PM
How about throwing in enough torsos that the winner won't get stuck with a box full of extra arms, legs and heads?

You are supposed to use those extra arms, legs and heads to decorate the bases of the Defiance Bugs you are also buying. 

 :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 05, 2012, 04:10:26 PM
It's down to a photo finish.....

Matakishi -- for a cat-lover you are OK in my book  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 05, 2012, 04:24:22 PM
If this is all about stiring people up Richard then I dont think you have got the point about the little betting pool. It was a bit of FUN. It's going to stay fun. We (well at least me) dont want to be involved in some silly netwar. Keep in mind we like Jake more than Defiance Marine figures round ere.

It's not about stirring up people. I have two boxes coming in and I will send one to the winner. It'll probably be Mr. Holloway unless the boxes have already been printed.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: TheShadow on April 05, 2012, 10:00:41 PM
unless the boxes have already been printed.

oooo let the box bitching begin !!!!!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 05, 2012, 10:23:17 PM
oooo let the box bitching begin !!!!!

Is this what you had in mind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arI6U6_0AKM&feature=related
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 05, 2012, 10:45:00 PM
It's not about stirring up people. I have two boxes coming in and I will send one to the winner. It'll probably be Mr. Holloway unless the boxes have already been printed.

Well, fair enough. I have to say you're being a sport about this whole thing. If it does wind up being me, I will assemble them, paint them, photograph them as best I can and start a thread on here sharing my experiences so that people can take a look at them and make up their own minds. I don't actually have a dog in this fight, so hopefully I'll be all impartial and whatnot.

Just ... probably not quickly. I'm a little behind schedule at the moment ...  :?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ajsalium on April 06, 2012, 11:33:17 PM
So, today's news (April the 6th, Friday):
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/usmc-frame-preview-pre-box-unboxing (http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/usmc-frame-preview-pre-box-unboxing)

Youtube video, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prVBR54VgN8&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prVBR54VgN8&feature=youtu.be)

Who would have thought, that we may see the end of this story... soonish...?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: kalamadea on April 07, 2012, 12:28:19 AM
In the not-too distant future, earth is under siege and aliens have waged an all-out attack on the mankind. In response to this extreme threat, all camera tripods have been confiscated and melted down for scrap. It's the only explanation that makes sense.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 07, 2012, 12:36:00 AM
By the year 2260 they will have presumably found a cameraman who does't appear to suffer from Parkinson's disease.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 07, 2012, 12:49:58 AM
this is so ridiculous  lol  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: commissarmoody on April 07, 2012, 12:54:03 AM
By the year 2260 they will have presumably found a cameraman who does't appear to suffer from Parkinson's disease.
I blame the Samuel Adams in 4:39 for the shaky cam
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 07, 2012, 02:23:56 AM
I blame the Samuel Adams in 4:39 for the shaky cam

Maybe Sam Adams Brewery paid for product placement?    That may be what is financing the boxes...
 
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Papa Spanky on April 07, 2012, 02:33:40 AM
So, do you get a Sam Adams in the box?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 07, 2012, 04:18:57 AM
Maybe the figs look better the more Sam Adams you drink?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: TwoGunBob on April 07, 2012, 05:24:12 AM
They'd have to get me drunk on something harder than Sam Adams... Thunder Bird... Night Train... then maybe I wouldn't mind waking up the next morning next to a box of these.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on April 07, 2012, 09:41:05 AM
They'd have to get me drunk on something harder than Sam Adams... Thunder Bird... Night Train... then maybe I wouldn't mind waking up the next morning next to a box of these.

Go for the best : Trappist ! (West-Vleteren, Rochefort and Chimay if you like dark beers and Orval if you rather have amber)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ettrick on April 08, 2012, 08:20:18 PM
I have some now.  They look very good in person.  Facial detail even includes wrinkles that I won't likely worry about.  There's no evidence of grain in the plastic surface as I've seen in other minis.  The only things I think I'll fix are the ankles.  Since the mould meets there, the detail is soft.  I'll just build little ridges to define the armour plates at that point.

(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i54/sagunt/IMG_5594.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: fairoaks024 on April 08, 2012, 08:24:54 PM
still can't see the 'super dynamic' legs that are so super dynamic you wouldn't want to use too many!!!! lol

regards

jim
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ettrick on April 08, 2012, 08:40:46 PM
That must have meant the ones lower right in my photo above.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 09, 2012, 06:56:01 AM
Nah, he's one of US, meaning he got free samples. Mine are still in the mail :(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 10, 2012, 07:37:35 AM
Who would have thought, that we may see the end of this story... soonish...?
DG site still says "preorder" for the Marines. The only thing that's changed since Thursday is that it now says "ships in April". With all these videos, it does look like a distinct possibility.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on April 10, 2012, 06:17:39 PM
as this hasn't landed here yet...

Quote from: Not Tony
From Dakka:

Quote
WIP: Defiance Games...
Marine. Had to take a break from painting yesterday for a few hours as we were having a boiler fitted in my attic workspace - not very condusive to sitting in deep concentration with a steady hand - so I started putting together a Defiance Games Marine from the three test-sprues Tony Reidy sent me. Let me state immediately - I like these! Despite the furore (you weren't aware of it? Where have you been!?) that's surrounded the release (well about to be released to be more accurate) of these miniatures I think they have a great deal of potential in terms of conversion (which is why I ordered several sets in the first place) and will look great with (and in) a number of the 28mm sci-fi vehicles I have in my collection. Being plastic there are some issues - lack of undercuts, 'soft detailing - but the material is so easy to manipulate and work with that these are only minor problems for anybody with a little modelling experience and the right tools.
I've put together a head, torso and legs and removed all the mould lines which are inherent to any casting be it metal, resin or plastic. I've then set about refining the detail and improving the undercuts in certain areas.

Here are some comparison pics of a marine OOB and one I've 'enhanced' -  pockets; buttons removed to be replaced at a later stage, flaps and expansion pleat given sharper definition. Body-armour; back of the arms, shoulder pads given undercuts and better definition. Boots; soles defined. Head; peak of cap thinned near ears, 'Colonial Marines' collar added to neck (I tend to do this with most figures that have a seperate head to improve the fit - the head is not permanently attached just blu-tacked - I would normally do this with modelling epoxy but here have drilled out the end of a plasticard tube and filed it down to nearer scale thickness then cut the opening in the front). Belt; most importantly, for me, I've given him an 'arse' by carving away the belt at the rear and then recarving to give an overall smaller waist and better shaped posterior. This also makes the back of the body armour appear bulkier and overhang the waist. A little more cleaning-up then I'll move on to the arms and weapon.

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/dwartist/Russian%20suit%20and%20Sturmtruppen/Defiancemarine001.jpg)
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/dwartist/Russian%20suit%20and%20Sturmtruppen/Defiancemarine002.jpg)
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/dwartist/Russian%20suit%20and%20Sturmtruppen/Defiancemarine004.jpg)
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/dwartist/Russian%20suit%20and%20Sturmtruppen/Defiancemarine005.jpg)

figures so good, you get to sculpt them yourself....  :o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 10, 2012, 06:22:33 PM
Doesn't look like the figures themselves are any better than the Combat Zone plastic troopers, although the weapons are much nicer.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 10, 2012, 06:48:52 PM
absolutely awfull  :'(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 10, 2012, 07:29:45 PM
Oh my!  That's a great deal of work to make a reasonable figure.  I am trying to like them...but I just can't.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: twrchtrwyth on April 10, 2012, 07:31:47 PM
Doesn't look like the figures themselves are any better than the Combat Zone plastic troopers, although the weapons are much nicer.
+1
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on April 10, 2012, 07:34:31 PM
absolutely awfull  :'(

What did you expect! 

:( +1 on the absolutely awful front.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: fairoaks024 on April 10, 2012, 07:56:09 PM
 :o

regards

jim
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on April 10, 2012, 08:10:57 PM
awwww... i wasn't very positive, but still i was expecting something more! =(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 10, 2012, 09:17:16 PM
Oh my!  That's a great deal of work to make a reasonable figure.  I am trying to like them...but I just can't.

half-hour? Bear in mind too that the pics are huge!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 10, 2012, 09:24:18 PM
half-hour?

x24  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 10, 2012, 09:40:06 PM
Maybe only a 1/2 hour for someone experienced in sculpting and converting figs.  I would take considerably longer to do the work shown...and likely ruin some figures in the process.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on April 10, 2012, 09:49:18 PM
Well, I said pages ago these would suck big time. There you go, complete crap minis.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on April 10, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
half-hour? Bear in mind too that the pics are huge!

But why would you choose to buy minis that need resculpting to make them barely passable?
I mean, if you bought 24 metal minis that needed 12hrs work on them before you could even prime them would you even bother?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 10, 2012, 11:33:51 PM
I got two sample sprues in yesterday and immediately assembled them and took some comparison shots.

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale01.jpg)
With Cadians and Marines

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale02.jpg)
Tyranids and a Sentinel

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale03.jpg)
With a 2010 Chimera

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale04.jpg)
Mantic Marauder and Forge Father

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale05.jpg)
WGF Shock Trooper and a Reaper Ogre ("Bones" line)

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale06.jpg)
WGF Zombies

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale07.jpg)
WGF Persian and Mantic Skeleton

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale09.jpg)
Tau Fire Warrior and Kroot

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale10.jpg)
Stealth Suit and Crisis Suit

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Richard_Gaulding/Defiance%20Games/DGUSMCScale11.jpg)
EM-4 Plastic Troopers
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on April 10, 2012, 11:36:04 PM
ok well, they are not THAT bad, better than the EM4 and such....

But they shurely don't deserve a 45-pages-long post. Just some decent plastic. I probably won't buy it, but i can understand why people would want to buy them.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on April 10, 2012, 11:36:29 PM
 :o

Oh dear god, that is a real step backwards in quality for plastic figures. It will take someone with a real paintbrush skill and a lot of time and effort to make that dross look passable.

Even worse than I was expecting. (and given its pedigree I wasn't expecting a whole lot)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dewbakuk on April 10, 2012, 11:37:20 PM
But why would you choose to buy minis that need resculpting to make them barely passable?
I mean, if you bought 24 metal minis that needed 12hrs work on them before you could even prime them would you even bother?

Think about who you're talking to, the answer is probably yes :)

I don't think they look too bad, a bit soft and probably not good enough for me to buy but not terrible.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ettrick on April 10, 2012, 11:45:49 PM
ok well, they are not THAT bad, better than the EM4 and such....

But they shurely don't deserve a 45-pages-long post. Just some decent plastic. I probably won't buy it, but i can understand why people would want to buy them.
Of course, much of the 45 pages seems to be a few people working to convince others that there were really no minis coming and Defiance was a scam.

My perspective on this is that more options is always good.  I was happy to see Mantic starting up.  I watch for new stuff from Perry, Bolt Action, Warlord.  Are these museum quality display pieces?  No.  Do they offer value for the cost?  Yes.  Am I a display painter who needs minis from only the supreme sculptor in the industry?  No.  I want to play games with minis that don't cost me 10 quid per.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 10, 2012, 11:54:55 PM
wow,the Reaper  Plastic Troll Guy is awesome,have to watch this Line  lol
i found some Minis  slightly uglier than the DG Marines:
Plastic Blood Berets from 1992  ;)
(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/crappycrap007.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 11, 2012, 12:01:31 AM

"But why would you choose to buy minis that need resculpting to make them barely passable?" because of the conversion potential; because I'm a modeller and painter and feel I have the requisite modelling and painting skills to improve them. I still think that even with a decent PJ they're more than passable
"I mean, if you bought 24 metal minis that needed 12hrs work on them before you could even prime them would you even bother?" Yes - If I liked the minis enough.
Don't like 'em? Don't buy 'em!

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 11, 2012, 12:06:33 AM
Don't like 'em? Don't buy 'em!
You mean we have personal choice in what models we buy?

MADNESS!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on April 11, 2012, 12:11:47 AM
You mean we have personal choice in what models we buy?

MADNESS!

hahaha, Xeno is right, sadly ;)

Anyway, we're here to express opinions, and so we are doing. I always avoided to offend Tony or WF, and i've been quite neutral. Now i've seen them and i can say that i don't like them,

Maybe painted by you dwartist they will become gold (that's quite often with your superb miniatures), but for now that's my opinion =)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on April 11, 2012, 12:58:58 AM
That's fair enough Dwarty but it just seems bonkers to buy minis that need so much work to make them worth painting. :shrug: o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on April 11, 2012, 01:16:13 AM
Well, now I'm a bit more undecisive.

When I saw the big blow ups of Dwartist's on Frothers I was turned off, but now seeing Xeno's pics, I'm back to thinking that they look halfway decent.

I guess I'll wait and see now.

As many things here on the interwebs get blown out of proportion, this whole episode turns out to be a tempest in a teacup.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: carlos marighela on April 11, 2012, 02:51:39 AM
If anything 46 pages is a testament to the enduring popularity of margarine sculpting.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 11, 2012, 05:46:58 AM
That's fair enough Dwarty but it just seems bonkers to buy minis that need so much work to make them worth painting. :shrug: o_o

Mine only took . . . oh, a couple minutes each to be ready for painting, not counting trimming the grenade launcher off the SAW and fiddling around with reposing some arms.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 11, 2012, 08:20:01 AM
That's fair enough Dwarty but it just seems bonkers to buy minis that need so much work to make them worth painting. :shrug: o_o

A lot of people enjoy messing around with models like that. Like Scurv, I've been playing around with the Warzone plastics lately, and for some of them it certainly took that long to get them exactly the way I wanted them. Mind you, I wasn't doing 20 of them -- I would do something to streamline my process there ...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 11, 2012, 09:07:18 AM
Of course, much of the 45 pages seems to be a few people working to convince others that there were really no minis coming and Defiance was a scam
I can't recall too many such posts as a matter of fact. But I'm sure you've read the entire thread more recently than I have.

Incidentally, the official availability info from DG is still "PRE-ORDER! Shipping in April!".

On the minis themselves, I rather agree with Scurv (as of Today at 01:48:50 AM). They are little short on the leg, a little soft on the detail but affordable so I do imagine some people will want to have lots. Not my cuppa tho.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Etranger on April 11, 2012, 10:39:47 AM
..... So if we are a baying mob armed with farm implements and incendries on sticks then Defiance is a bit like Victor Von Frankenstien throwing body parts off the parapet with instructions on how to build our own frankenstiens monsters.

He needs to throw a few more torsos to go with all the extra legs though!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 11, 2012, 10:46:26 AM
"When I saw the big blow ups of Dwartist's on Frothers I was turned off"
Sorry - that 'huge' photo (on my screen the minis is the same size as the head in the photo) was posted in error and should have been the link to the WIP on the blog. I imagine if you enlarge most minis x4 they won't look so great. These minis are from the test sprues and not the final product which I understand is much improved. I have no vested interest; I'm not getting paid for painting them; I'm not a pal of Tony Reidy (not a happy-chappy at the mo' with all that invective created by my 'HUGE' - his word - photo); I genuinely like the minis and believe they'll look good with a decent PJ even OOB.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Verderer on April 11, 2012, 11:50:34 AM
Dwartist, it has to be said that for a blind person you truly are master painter! :o ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 11, 2012, 02:23:20 PM
Dwartist, it has to be said that for a blind person you truly are master painter! :o ;)

haha
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on April 11, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
i found some Minis  slightly uglier than the DG Marines:
Plastic Blood Berets from 1992  ;)
(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/crappycrap007.jpg)

Uglier .......yes. But still better detailed castings.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 11, 2012, 03:39:40 PM
In their defense, they're playing pieces for a board game rather than miniatures per se.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Hrothgar on April 11, 2012, 10:04:13 PM
Bah, its too easy to hate on Warzone boardgame figures!! :D They are undeniably in the "beaten with an ugly stick" category (especially those blood berets). But that being said, there is something about their cartoonish goofiness that I am really fond of-much like many of the early Rogue Trader figures (although these WZ figures are probably uglier still). I still have several units-worth that I picked up cheap off the internets. With a proper paintjob they are not so bad, and I have no problem plopping them down on the game table, my opponent's gagging, eye-bleeding, and begging to make the ugly go away nonwithstanding.

The point is, if I can find beauty in those ugly mothers, I should be able to give these DG marines a go. The pics are growing on me, and I am intrigued by the uses for all those extra arms, legs, heads, and weapons.  ;) ;) ;)

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 11, 2012, 10:52:11 PM
The pics are growing on me.

Wash with bleach.   If that doesn't work hold a chunk of dry ice to the affected area.

 ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 11, 2012, 11:08:45 PM
Bah, its too easy to hate on Warzone boardgame figures!! :D They are undeniably in the "beaten with an ugly stick" category (especially those blood berets). But that being said, there is something about their cartoonish goofiness that I am really fond of-much like many of the early Rogue Trader figures (although these WZ figures are probably uglier still).
Bravo sir,you passed the Geek Test  lol i paid silly Money (nearly 200$ incl P+P ) for a mint Copy of the Siege of the Citadel Boardgame.Iam a huge Fan of all the Goofiness  ;)

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 11, 2012, 11:14:43 PM
I would play the hell out of Siege of the Citadel, don't get me wrong. I loved that game back in the day.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 11, 2012, 11:33:00 PM
so, looks like most of us arent that picky  when it comes to "cheap " Plastics  8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 12, 2012, 12:08:48 AM
My plastic bin is brimming with junque, and in my view it all looks fine on the tabletop as long as the painting and basing is right -- but then I am a workaday painter, not a master. I like cheap plastics plenty; I just don't really need more soldier types at the moment. I mean, I can always _use_ a few, but it's not a pressing need.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 12, 2012, 06:51:16 AM
No new news on the Marines shipping on DG site since yesterday. Well, maybe tomorrow... o_o

Here's again the list of the nics participating in the "Guess the Defiance Games Marine Shipping Date" competition, with "victory windows" calculated (hopefully correctly) and the actual wager date:
Tied dates are May 9, May 18, May 28 and June 18 so let's hope the shipping date doesn't fall on any of those...

Is there someone missing?

Matakishi and Xeno_RG have added a prize but are not participating. Dwartist with his standing preorder is arbitrating on the final realized date issue.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 12, 2012, 09:50:00 AM
"Dwartist with his standing preorder is arbitrating on the final realized date issue."
Am I?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 12, 2012, 09:59:37 AM
Best for last is the half a can of hairspray 80's big hair.

I think that is the eponymous beret.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure those figures are out there. Google or ebay for "Blood Berets". There are not-dissimilar models in "Siege of the Citadel" and "Fury of the Clansmen". Fury is where the biggest hair can be found. Personally, I think the baddies in Siege actually look quite nice.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 12, 2012, 11:02:28 AM
"Dwartist with his standing preorder is arbitrating on the final realized date issue."
Am I?
You have not objected to being "it" so that must be a sign of consent :P

The only proposed alternative is to wait until Matakishi gives an okay by naming a trusted retailer having the product in stock but that's not going to get us an actual ship date.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 12, 2012, 11:13:53 AM
No new news on the Marines shipping on DG site since yesterday. Well, maybe tomorrow... o_o

Here's again the list of the nics participating in the "Guess the Defiance Games Marine Shipping Date" competition, with "victory windows" calculated (hopefully correctly) and the actual wager date:
  • James Holloway: until April 24 (April 15)
  • Commander Vyper April 25- May 8 (May 4)
  • Old Goat: May 9 - May 17 (May 14)
  • Dr.Falkenhayn: May 19 - May 27 (May 22)
  • Cadet 13: May 29 - June 3 (June 3)
  • Aliensurfer: June 4 - June 18 (June 4)
  • Silversixx: June 20 onwards to infinity and beyond! (July 4th)
Tied dates are May 9, May 18, May 28 and June 18 so let's hope the shipping date doesn't fall on any of those...

Is there someone missing?

Matakishi and Xeno_RG have added a prize but are not participating. Dwartist with his standing preorder is arbitrating on the final realized date issue.

You missed me.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 12, 2012, 11:39:05 AM
Feel free to provide the relevant details.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 12, 2012, 01:02:40 PM
Anyone know if there's going to be an UK retailer for these?

Or a fellow LAF member from the US, who can pick a couple of boxes for me (when available)?  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 13, 2012, 07:17:13 AM
Why can't you order them yourself? The p&p doesn't seem in any way excessive... ???

As for the actual release date...
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/boxes-approved-and-ready-to-print

It's starting to look like James Holloway has pretty solid tabs on winning the competition!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 13, 2012, 07:42:19 AM
Why can't you order them yourself? The p&p doesn't seem in any way excessive... ???

As for the actual release date...
http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/boxes-approved-and-ready-to-print

It's starting to look like James Holloway has pretty solid tabs on winning the competition!

Maaaaaaybe ... they're talking about it all "coming together" next week. They only need to be off by a week to run past the end of my window, and it's not like they've never been optimistic about their timetable before.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 13, 2012, 09:14:38 AM
True, that. But also they only need to get the stuff going before your window ends for you to win, it doesn't have to arrive.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zemjw on April 13, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
Quote
thjrp wrote
Why can't you order them yourself? The p&p doesn't seem in any way excessive...

Sadly, although the p&p isn't bad, when you add import duties etc, it quickly adds up

1 box = $29.95 + $5.95 p&p = $36 (rounded up) = £22.58 in uk money

Import threshold is now £15 on the pre p&p price, but as $29.95 is £18.80, it's still over the threshold and you now have to add 20%, which is another £4.50(*). You then get the Post Office's "I looked at it, I'm going to charge you" charge, which is approx £8.

So, £22 + £4.50 + £8 = £34.50, which is 50% more than the simple dollar to pound conversion cost.

For 24 minis, that makes just under £1.50 per figure. I used to be able to get three Imperial Guard for that, although that was many years ago  ;D


* I'm not sure if vat is charged on the full (inc p&p) or the basic (pre p&p) amount. If it excludes p&p the vat becomes £3.76
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 13, 2012, 10:06:51 AM
Hmm, I wasn't aware that the UK import threshold for miniatures is so low. In Finland, it's in practice 50 € (although that's including p&p) which, at today's rate, means ca. US$65 or £41. Strictly speaking the threshold is slighly less and dependent on the VAT and the customs fee of the product but the customs office basically won't bother with less than 50 €.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zemjw on April 13, 2012, 10:48:31 AM
it was £18 until recently, but is now pretty much a joke. It's £35 for gifts, but that wouldn't apply in this case.

Since the start of the current "economic issues", they seem to let much less through without charge  :(

I have wondered about using one of those US postal address services and getting it forwarded on from there. It would increase the p&p charges, but you might avoid the customs charge (no idea how those sites handle customs declarations). At that point, however, I do step back and ask myself if I *really* need the figures ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 13, 2012, 11:32:32 AM
I think it would still fall under the "£35 for a gift" rule even if you used one of those (not applicable to one box of DG Marines, obviously)...

I don't really see those forwarding boxes as an alternative for anything else than for círcumventing the shops that put (IMCO mostly pointless) embargoes on certain products, such as music file downloads.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 13, 2012, 11:47:25 AM
Why can't you order them yourself? The p&p doesn't seem in any way excessive... ???...


Because the Customs here in Portugal now have the nasty habit of taxing everything that doesn't come from the EU. And their import threshold is rather low - 15€. If they see a parcel sent from a commercial seller...you get to pay taxes.

If it's sent from a private address, marked as a gift, they usually let it slide.

Anyway, I've already solved that little problem  :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DeeDee on April 13, 2012, 01:15:02 PM
Anyone know if there's going to be an UK retailer for these?

Or a fellow LAF member from the US, who can pick a couple of boxes for me (when available)?  ;)

We may be.

Jed has production samples and we're waiting on his impressions.

I've asked him to try to remember to take them to SALUTE for anybody interested to look at; no promises though as he has a memory like a ... wirey thing with holes in it?

/Dee
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 14, 2012, 03:34:11 AM
There are pics of the boxes now (and stacks of printed boxes, not assembled yet  lol):

http://ttfix.blogspot.pt/2012/04/defiance-games-usmc-box-art.html

They should be available soon, no?  :-X
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Etranger on April 14, 2012, 09:11:45 AM
Taken from Frothers thread  & relating to the unauthorised use of the USMC badge on the box art. Frothers being Frothers you'll have to decide for yourselves whether it's genuine! http://frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36589&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=2370 (page 236!) ...

Thanks guys for catching that - we had researched use of the Marine Corps information a while back but had been using old (pre-2009) info.

In general, I think you're mostly a bunch of useless gits - but this was incredibly helpful! Box and site are changing and I get to incorporate some fluff I had been holding back.

Now get back to being useless.

Cheers,
Tony
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 14, 2012, 01:00:56 PM
At least they have the boxes for the Bugs ready - judging from the pictures...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 14, 2012, 01:01:06 PM
Someone needs to change this thread title too.  They are no longer USMC Marines...

 ;)

http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/shop

Wow.    o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 14, 2012, 01:12:38 PM
United America  lol so is the Boxart a Testprint then?Hudsons Bugs Drones is a Killer too.Lots of Potential for further Boxes:Connors Robot Drones,Skywalkers Churchie Warriors,Adolfs Future Guards  ::)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on April 14, 2012, 01:22:32 PM
From anyone one else this comment (quoted from the frothers thread) could be taken as a joke.

Hi Everyone, Tony Reidy here at Defiance Games. Defiance Games. You know, the US's leading manufacturer of ... Oh Never mind. Anyway, I have heard some people are moaning because our stuff hasn;t been released yet, so I thought I would explain. Everything was ready to go. I had pulled the Trigger on the production run, and had just run the Bopx Art proposal up the flagpole to see if anyone got a boner, when one of those bastards at Frothers pointed out there was a Legal Issue with the box art. We are sending it back to the printers, but in the meantime if you want anyone to blame for the 6 month gap between payment and non-delivery, BLAME FROTHERS.
Cheers,
Tony


Sadly that is probably what he really thinks, after all, in his own delusional world none of this could be his fault. Just like the WSS issue was a foreign conspiracy, this one is obviously the fault of posters on an internet forum.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Sangennaru on April 14, 2012, 01:59:04 PM
wait robh, is this REALLY from tony? Oh Em Gee.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 14, 2012, 02:04:32 PM
That hardly seems like it could be a legit post. Are we sure it's not someone posing as Tony? I mean, it has to be someone else, right? "Flagpole"? "Boner"?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 14, 2012, 02:59:54 PM
It's not from Tony and doesn't make much sense when read out of context of the (very) long thread on Frothers.

As for our thread, the USMC miniatures will never be delivered now because the name's been changed. In the spirit of looking at the big picture I move that we accept the new name, seeing as the figures are the same, and await their delivery to a paying customer with baited breath.

It still amuses me that my original post suggesting that Defiance Games should have a product before offering it for sale has me labeled as a hater by people that support this behaviour when, in fact, following this simple advice would have avoided all that has come after their initial ill-timed 'release' notice; nearly five months of negative internet coverage.

Still no figures on shelves. I may get to see some at Salute, I'll keep you posted :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 14, 2012, 03:03:32 PM

 I may get to see some at Salute, I'll keep you posted :)

so much for the Pre Ordering Advantage  lol lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 14, 2012, 03:12:48 PM
They won't be for sale, Antenociti's Workshop may bring their samples if Jed remembers, see Nadine's post above.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Wolf 359 on April 14, 2012, 04:15:03 PM


The Quar will change your life, man....


Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 14, 2012, 04:28:18 PM
I have 15mm Quar, but they are not painted yet.

As for the USMC copy right deal, I'm guessing Tony has ticked off folk so that they actively seek out ways to screw with him.  I'm glad he adjusted quickly.   I do find it funny much in the way I find youtube videos of guys getting smacked in the junk funny.  It is funny because it is someone else's pain and not mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inj2Ch-oIX8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inj2Ch-oIX8&feature=related)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 14, 2012, 04:29:01 PM
One of defiance's big things is the American angle, it always has been since Wargames Factory started. The biggest announcement noise originally with WF was that they were 'made in America' which solicited much rejoicing and flag waving on another forum. When it transpired they were made in China this was glossed over somewhat until the Chinese became the excuse for Tony getting booted out. At least Defiance Games figures are actually made in America and the trumpeting is justified this time around.
The USMC was a calculated move to enlist the homegrown support and I think it worked. It was a decent enough idea aimed at the target audience, good move. Perhaps not such a good move to use the USMC emblem as part of your marketing without clearance first. I doubt it would be a problem with a historical set, Warlord splash the emblem on their WWII Marines set and I doubt they have clearance either but there is quite a lot of precedence with historical kit makers using historical insignias and much has been made of recent (failed) moves to copyright tank and aircraft designs so kit manufacturers would have to pay royalties.
Defiance obviously think it'll be a problem as they've changed the name. Better to do it now than have the range recalled later, imagine the mess then.
This further delay has been caused by Frothers, not Defiance Games of course. Damn those pesky interfering kids!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 14, 2012, 11:34:41 PM
I don't disagree with you, who ever spent the time figuring out that was an issue is a mean spirited SOB.  I'm glad Tony adjusted quickly and this isn't gonna delay him too much if at all.

I do find the predicament funny though.   It wouldn't have happened to anyone else, and the fact it happened on this particular project, a project that has already had issues big and small, does hit my funny bone a little.


Don't feel bad about being disgusted at that.   My wife will tell you my sense of humor is very 'off'.   
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: anevilgiraffe on April 15, 2012, 11:18:04 AM
This further delay has been caused by Frothers, not Defiance Games of course. Damn those pesky interfering kids!

no no... it was Dakka... it said so on Facebook...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Varangian on April 15, 2012, 09:20:04 PM


I also wonder though just how much all this broo ha ha is actually worth to some people. Looking up Marine Corp copyright rules, please. The only reason to of done that would be to screw Defiance Games around. Sure they should of done their homework on it but fer christ sake I doubt the person who pointed that out is even connected with the Marine Corp in any fashion.
  

Well, that sort of copyright stuff could get hairy. The Marine Corps is pretty serious about it. There are a few businesses that had to revamp a lot of things, and since one of them makes all of its money selling Marine branded items it hurt pretty hardcore. There was actually a needed redesign for quite a few of their products. Going through the approval process takes some time. The Eagle, Globe and Anchor will have to be changed, or it still runs into the copyrighting issues.

For someone to try to blame Frothers is pretty sad. I really hope this isn't a a legit post from the company. I've been looking forward to these for quite some time, and would like to not do business with someone that would say that sort of thing and mean it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 16, 2012, 07:03:38 AM
All that being said I wish they would release these figs so we can end this long long long bet.
What with them having to redo the boxes now (which turn of events Matakishi predicted in a quite decent detail, I might add), it probably won't happen this week either.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 16, 2012, 09:49:00 AM
What with them having to redo the boxes now (which turn of events Matakishi predicted in a quite decent detail, I might add), it probably won't happen this week either.

I don't know.   They seem to have already changed the digital file the printer is going to need.  No real reason the printer can't execute his run on schedule (supposed to start today...)

Jake
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on April 16, 2012, 02:02:18 PM
for the record, I don't think it was a regular frother who picked up on the USMC thing first, but it was a petty thing to do. On the plus side, nearly every few pages has some boobs on it (proper ones this time)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 17, 2012, 06:17:11 AM
But of course... It's always the main challenger (such as it is) to the US supermacy. That, or the North Koreans :P

The plausibility of the DG's Alien Wars background fluff would really be a subject of another thread altogether of course.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 17, 2012, 08:47:29 PM
For the record, the boxes are being printed this week, sprues are continuing to be produced, and they should be released next week (and it'll be a hectic few days boxing and mailing all that stuff, I'm sure). The change to the boxes was literally just inserting another digital file.

iirc, it was Matakishi who pointed out the copyright issue on Frothers and, really, it's my fault for not bringing it up as soon as it was pointed out. Honestly, given how often US military stuff appears in American toys and media, I was surprised copyright was an issue (though, in retrospect, it makes perfect sense).
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 18, 2012, 12:28:12 AM
I did indeed mention it. I asked quite some time ago if Defiance needed permission and what do you know, they decided they did. Luckily for them they changed their boxes before they were sent out. Tony seemed happy that it was mentioned.
No 'internet scouring' involved (thanks Scurv), I looked up the Marines emblem on the internet to see if it was actually a Marine emblem on their boxes and, under the picture on Wikipedia, was the copyright notice. Not difficult to check really.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 18, 2012, 01:04:36 AM
I am a tit too, sometimes :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Varangian on April 18, 2012, 04:51:15 AM
For the record, the boxes are being printed this week, sprues are continuing to be produced, and they should be released next week (and it'll be a hectic few days boxing and mailing all that stuff, I'm sure). The change to the boxes was literally just inserting another digital file.

iirc, it was Matakishi who pointed out the copyright issue on Frothers and, really, it's my fault for not bringing it up as soon as it was pointed out. Honestly, given how often US military stuff appears in American toys and media, I was surprised copyright was an issue (though, in retrospect, it makes perfect sense).

The copyrighting of the USMC's intellectual property has been pretty recent. (it feels odd to mention IP in regards to the military) I want to say the past six months, it might have been a little before that. So this is a seriously new issue, and it affected a lot of companies, many with product already being sold. Luckily, and I think to the Marine Corps' credit, the companies were given plenty of time to sell through merchandise before being hit with the new branding rules.

Yeah, branding rules. Part of the licensing agreement is that they have control over how the IP gets used.

The funds raised are supposed to go to MWR (Morale, Welfare, and Recreation) according to the program announcement. I cannot argue with that, that program can ALWAYS use more capital.

I'll definitely be placing an order over the next couple of months, even if it's not all official!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 18, 2012, 06:05:22 AM
Seeing as the Marines are going out next week... It's going to be exciting to see if James Holloway will pull a win or if Commander Vyper takes the cake 8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on April 18, 2012, 09:02:21 AM
It's not just the USMC that are getting into IP.  For example, the Character Building (Lego knock-off) HM Armed Forces range is described on their web-site as "produced in conjunction with and ... endorsed by the Ministry of Defence".  Similarly, when Doctor Who was revived, the BBC found that they could no longer refer to UNIT as the "United Nations Intelligence Taskforce" because of UN trademarking of its own name.

It's getting that we soon won't be able to call each other by name without written permission and a copyright fee.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 18, 2012, 10:25:32 AM
The copyrighting of the USMC's intellectual property has been pretty recent. (it feels odd to mention IP in regards to the military) I want to say the past six months, it might have been a little before that. So this is a seriously new issue, and it affected a lot of companies, many with product already being sold. Luckily, and I think to the Marine Corps' credit, the companies were given plenty of time to sell through merchandise before being hit with the new branding rules.

Yeah, branding rules. Part of the licensing agreement is that they have control over how the IP gets used.

The funds raised are supposed to go to MWR (Morale, Welfare, and Recreation) according to the program announcement. I cannot argue with that, that program can ALWAYS use more capital.

I'll definitely be placing an order over the next couple of months, even if it's not all official!

Bull crap, pure and simple bull crap.

http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%205030.3B.pdf

Unles 1997 was 6 months ago...  And there were similar policies in effect even before that.  The actual approval process may evolve, and how they take payment and what they do with it may evolve, but the USMC has always been protective of their logo and associated imagery. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 18, 2012, 04:03:49 PM
Tax collector?   lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 18, 2012, 04:17:07 PM
Cop?  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 18, 2012, 04:27:32 PM
Main Force Patrol?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on April 18, 2012, 04:40:26 PM
you want to know something funny. I had my workers comp case (got badly injured at work) start about the same time they announced these in Nov last year and it will be finished this friday god willing. This means public servants are working faster to get a result than DG. I used to think nothing in the universe is as slow as a public servant doing something quickly. Now I have to readjust my entire world view. Considering I work in the most retarded, useless and self serving department in the country where the average IQ is not over 85 I find this stunning. If I named the department i work for every aussie on this board would agree with the above comments about them. It's the most hated department in the country by a country mile.   

Immigration? If so, slip my application form in as passed and cleared as okay, I know being a Pom will count against me, but even I have to be better than most of what you guys get coming in - for a start I am a wargamer  ;)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on April 18, 2012, 11:34:54 PM
a slab? Of what?  :o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 18, 2012, 11:51:19 PM
a slab? Of what?  :o

Obviously of smoked ribs!

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/CptJake_Minis/BaconExplosion/RibsSmoker.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ragnar on April 19, 2012, 01:08:56 AM
a slab? Of what?  :o

I am sorry, but you have just failed your entrance exam.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Varangian on April 19, 2012, 02:39:01 AM
Bull crap, pure and simple bull crap.

http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%205030.3B.pdf

Unles 1997 was 6 months ago...  And there were similar policies in effect even before that.  The actual approval process may evolve, and how they take payment and what they do with it may evolve, but the USMC has always been protective of their logo and associated imagery.  

The order you linked to doesn't mention a licensing program, or a fee for using their intellectual property. All that was required was permission, which is not the same thing by a long shot. Did you miss that fact?

In late 2007 the DoD established the directive for each branch to create a Trademark office. The Marine Corps Trademark Licensing Office was created in 2009. Just after that was the first hint that a fee could, and would, be charged. As of November 2009 the Marine Corps was still issuing agreement letters to use the Marine Corps insignia for commercial purposes, with no fee. A month later the program was changed.

So, you're right about one thing. I was wrong about the six months. It was about two and a half years ago. Oops.

So, since no fee was collected in the past, ever, that is a pretty significant change I think. I could see how someone else would disagree.

Certainly didn't warrant someone being a dick about it. :)

For those that are curious: The Marine Corps Trademark and Licensing Program FAQ http://www.marines.mil/unit/divpa/tmlo/Pages/faq.aspx More information can be found in the banner on the left.

Also, a great Blog post talking about the development of the issue: http://rovinghistorian.blogspot.com/2009/12/marine-corps-restricts-use-of-emblems.html He has a great set of resources throughout the post and at the bottom.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Varangian on April 19, 2012, 03:27:16 AM
We went over that already mate. It was one look at Wikki that established the facts around the marine IP. Hence my apology to Mat. If it only took a look at Wikki then Tony should of been up to speed without being told.

I was referring to a different instance, it was ridiculous, so I responded as such :)

Yeah, hopefully this sort of thing won't be an issue. Unfortunately with what they're charging it's got me not at all interested in doing an "official" project like this.

Luckily those WW2 Jarheads are too small to see their EGA's on their uniforms.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 19, 2012, 07:34:47 AM
Meanwhile on the Marines front... Another day, another video. But still no product really actually factually going out.
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/how-boxes-are-made

Oh well, Tony - according to Xeno_RG - did say it's going to take until next week so we'll just have to be patient 8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 19, 2012, 10:37:49 AM
The order you linked to doesn't mention a licensing program, or a fee for using their intellectual property. All that was required was permission, which is not the same thing by a long shot. Did you miss that fact?

In late 2007 the DoD established the directive for each branch to create a Trademark office. The Marine Corps Trademark Licensing Office was created in 2009. Just after that was the first hint that a fee could, and would, be charged. As of November 2009 the Marine Corps was still issuing agreement letters to use the Marine Corps insignia for commercial purposes, with no fee. A month later the program was changed.

So, you're right about one thing. I was wrong about the six months. It was about two and a half years ago. Oops.

So, since no fee was collected in the past, ever, that is a pretty significant change I think. I could see how someone else would disagree.

Certainly didn't warrant someone being a dick about it. :)

For those that are curious: The Marine Corps Trademark and Licensing Program FAQ http://www.marines.mil/unit/divpa/tmlo/Pages/faq.aspx More information can be found in the banner on the left.

Also, a great Blog post talking about the development of the issue: http://rovinghistorian.blogspot.com/2009/12/marine-corps-restricts-use-of-emblems.html He has a great set of resources throughout the post and at the bottom.


Except my link DID show that the USMC DID require express permission to use their logo as far back as 1997.  It clearly lays out the requirement and the process.  To claim the logo and even the USMC were not protected when Tony allegedly checked is asinine.   To claim he didn't find a requirement to pay so blew off the required approval process, or didn't look at all to find the required process is probably accurate.   The image and initials WERE protected as far back as 1997.  Period.   Tony had NO excuse to not seek the required permission.  That is not me being a dick, that is me stating fact.   Covering for Tony's lack of dilligence is silly.  He screwed up.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: chromedog on April 19, 2012, 01:24:22 PM
If I named the department i work for every aussie on this board would agree with the above comments about them. It's the most hated department in the country by a country mile.   

Centrelink, right?  The former department of zee SS (cultural inheritors of the DSS mantle?)
I've seen angry maori.  You do NOT want to be near them.   Goes for most of the Pacific islanders, really.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Varangian on April 19, 2012, 01:54:08 PM
Except my link DID show that the USMC DID require express permission to use their logo as far back as 1997.  It clearly lays out the requirement and the process.  To claim the logo and even the USMC were not protected when Tony allegedly checked is asinine.   To claim he didn't find a requirement to pay so blew off the required approval process, or didn't look at all to find the required process is probably accurate.   The image and initials WERE protected as far back as 1997.  Period.   Tony had NO excuse to not seek the required permission.  That is not me being a dick, that is me stating fact.   Covering for Tony's lack of dilligence is silly.  He screwed up.

Ahhhh.... I was never trying to cover for a lack of due diligence. I think that might be where that misunderstanding is coming from, on both sides.

So, my apologies.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Splod on April 20, 2012, 04:09:48 AM
You win the quipe doll. Biggist pack of arseclowns I have ever worked for.
Ha... Just dealing with them now for the first time in my life. I'm in the process of applying to transfer to the full time Army from the Reserves and my civie boss wasn't too happy with me telling him I'd be leaving soon, hence no work and me in the dolle que. At the rate these jokers are going I'll have been full time for months before I get a cent out of Centre-wank.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 20, 2012, 05:10:17 AM
We went over that already mate. It was one look at Wikki that established the facts around the marine IP. Hence my apology to Mat. If it only took a look at Wikki then Tony should of been up to speed without being told.

I wonder if wikipedia existed when he did is research?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 20, 2012, 07:32:59 AM
I wonder if wikipedia existed when he did is research?

Well, considering it's existed for 11 years, I would suspect so. Unless this project has taken even longer than we thought!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on April 20, 2012, 01:14:11 PM
Maybe the internet didn't exist when he did his research!!

What year to Al Gore invent it?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 20, 2012, 01:18:08 PM
He didn't:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

As to the research timing and existence of things, well... You know the drill (key word: hater, as in don't be a).

---

On the Marines front, Atenociti rep has stated they have production sprues on hand at their booth in Salute. Which bit of info may be of interest to some.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 21, 2012, 03:11:09 AM
The "bonus" figure has been reveled...it's a guy using something in his head...something that looks a mixture of a sombrero with a slouch hat. The hat brim could be a little shorter  :o

(http://defiancegames.com/images/gunny-offer.jpg)


Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 21, 2012, 03:43:43 AM
I assume it is supposed to be sort of a boonie hat. 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: TwoGunBob on April 21, 2012, 04:08:45 AM
Sgt. Hobo of the Homeless Sector reporting for duty?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: fairoaks024 on April 21, 2012, 10:20:46 AM
Thats poor, even by their standards!

Do you think getting this guy made and into the pre-order
Boxes will cause more delay? I notice he's a render, so
Almost certainly doesn't exist yet.

Regards

Jim
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: robh on April 21, 2012, 10:40:47 AM
Presumably they are grasping at US Marine  imagery to the extent of trying to make a not Clint Eastwood TM not "Gunny Highway" TM character from the not US marine TM invasion of not Grenada TM shown in the not "Heartbreak Ridge" TM movie.

But failing.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Predatorpt on April 21, 2012, 02:02:57 PM
I assume it is supposed to be sort of a boonie hat. 

The right word is "supposed" I guess...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 21, 2012, 05:28:02 PM
I saw the production sprues that were sent to Jed (I only got the pre-production ones) and the casting and moulding is crisp and sharp with decent definition. There's not a lot wrong with them at all. Whether you like them or not (I do, as I've said) is a different matter.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 23, 2012, 09:47:46 AM
Given "Gunny" is available for one week and
Quote
is our* "thank you" to everyone who pre-ordered the Marines. If you have a pre-order in now - or you make one in the next couple days
I would hazard a guess that the Marines won't be shipping out this week either :?

---

*) quote from the DG news item
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: commissarmoody on April 23, 2012, 10:19:04 AM
I got an E-mail saying they are shipping out next week. So that was sent on the 21st so depanding on how you view that, its ether this week, or next monday.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 23, 2012, 10:23:00 AM
As 21st was a Saturday, based on that the Marines should ship this week since in U.S. of A. the week starts on Sunday. Exciting or what? o_o
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: James Holloway on April 25, 2012, 08:21:02 AM
Since we haven't heard anything, I'm going to assume that they didn't ship yesterday and that my contest window is now closed. Dang it! So close! Good luck, Commander Vyper.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on April 25, 2012, 08:37:38 AM
I got an E-mail saying they are shipping out next week. So that was sent on the 21st so depanding on how you view that, its ether this week, or next monday.

I didn't...  :-[
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 25, 2012, 09:35:31 AM
Since we haven't heard anything, I'm going to assume that they didn't ship yesterday and that my contest window is now closed. Dang it! So close!
So close, or maybe not - we shall see. Too bad anyway, JH :?

The freebie "Gunny" mini looks to have been only test cast so far (in very nice blue plastic, which is apparently why no actual pix of the mini have been officially shown) so it prolly indeed takes until next week at the very least until they start actually shipping the preorders. Anyway, Commander Vyper now has until May 8 to take the prize.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 25, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
Sorry no, I don't have a list of the minis "in the pot". For keeping tabs on who is poised to win, I took Dr. Falkenhayn's (IIRC) list on the exact dates people have bet on and calculated the "victory windows" based off of that:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=35460.msg472961#msg472961
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on April 25, 2012, 12:44:17 PM
Come on Defiance! Stall for another 2 months and I'll get loads of stuff that will turn into the greatest project ever lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 25, 2012, 02:01:07 PM
check Pages 7-9 for more Infos  ;)

in the Bidding Pool we have:
Foundry B Team
Hasselfree Hazmat Team
Salute 2010 Robot +Lady Vignette
some 19th Century Foundry Ghurkas
a selection of 40K Minis
a gold plated Matakishi (the Cat Thing i guess  8))
 nearly a full early War British Command Squad (ww whatever)
some Banana Wars USMC Minis from Brigade
some WW2 Minis from BTD
a Pair of Kryomek Cyclos
a full Box of the UAMC

damn Defiance dont make the Commander winning all the Goodies  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on April 25, 2012, 02:12:42 PM
Damn, I really need that B-team!
And by the way, I want to add some extra stuff to the winner. But, I'm not sure with what yet. Might be some Brigade Games Gangsters that I got spare.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 25, 2012, 03:44:53 PM
I had put up the TFL "Hugh Jarce" figure they sent out with IAMSM II.

Jake
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on April 25, 2012, 09:18:40 PM
Thats what I thought too. Trust me you dont. I think it was a very tired mould that these ones came out of. Very very soft detail. The street violence yardies I got on the other hand are great. Hence me throwing in some FFL figs so I dont seem like some skally ned.

Now is there any way of forming that set of disparate figures into an army?

Golgo Island teams?

I've a selection of figures/blisters kicking about of which I'll let the winner pick from - off hand I think most of it is GW Eldar Phoenix Lords and a Farseer - all untouched.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 25, 2012, 11:42:03 PM
So close, or maybe not - we shall see. Too bad anyway, JH :?

The freebie "Gunny" mini looks to have been only test cast so far (in very nice blue plastic, which is apparently why no actual pix of the mini have been officially shown) so it prolly indeed takes until next week at the very least until they start actually shipping the preorders. Anyway, Commander Vyper now has until May 8 to take the prize.

Actually . . . I know the EXACT date they're going to start shipping.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Commander Vyper on April 26, 2012, 12:01:22 AM
check Pages 7-9 for more Infos  ;)

in the Bidding Pool we have:
lots!

Damn Defiance dont make the Commander winning all the Goodies  lol

Yum!!!:D

I'll throw in a load of GW metal minis I've been flogging recently, (list later).
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 26, 2012, 12:16:57 AM
Actually . . . I know the EXACT date they're going to start shipping.

Yes, of course you do. You may know when Tony says they're going to ship but that's all. And, as this thread proves, his grasp of dates and when things will happen isn't the most reliable.
Your 'insider' label is a little tired please stop trying to use it on this thread. It's clear to everyone who's followed your posting history here, on TMP, Frothers and Dakka that you like to present company rumour as fact in an attempt to make yourself seem more important. It doesn't work.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Cadet13 on April 26, 2012, 04:27:01 AM
Now is there any way of forming that set of disparate figures into an army?

Seconded. I'd love to see how one could bring them all together. :)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 26, 2012, 05:47:35 AM
I know the EXACT date they're going to start shipping
Good for you. However the competition cannot be resolved on your knowledge of what officially is still the future at this time of writing.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 26, 2012, 05:51:23 AM
Yes, of course you do. You may know when Tony says they're going to ship but that's all. And, as this thread proves, his grasp of dates and when things will happen isn't the most reliable.
Your 'insider' label is a little tired please stop trying to use it on this thread. It's clear to everyone who's followed your posting history here, on TMP, Frothers and Dakka that you like to present company rumour as fact in an attempt to make yourself seem more important. It doesn't work.

You're even cattier than your avatar ;)

Actually, is more like "this is the day we have set aside to get together at my place and start boxing things" because Defiance, like 99% of miniatures companies, is operated out of someone's living room. I'd be there to lend a hand but . . . well . . . Massachusetts is a little far to walk from New Mexico :D


Note to self: get smoke machine and mirrors for photo of boxes when they arrive . . .
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 26, 2012, 06:18:00 AM
Actually, is more like "this is the day we have set aside to get together at my place and start boxing things" because Defiance, like 99% of miniatures companies, is operated out of someone's living room
Ah. So not quite the same thing as you knowing the date they'll ship then, is it? After all, it might take longer than expected and then they can't go out on that date, no?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 26, 2012, 06:44:26 AM
Ah. So not quite the same thing as you knowing the date they'll ship then, is it? After all, it might take longer than expected and then they can't go out on that date, no?

Yeah, I guess a storm might blow in and shut everything down for a month, or the entire state might be nuked by Texas because their all "libruls" or maybe the USPS'll go bankrupt. Of course, none of these have anything to do with "We will be packing the boxes and bringing them to the post office on [date redacted]." So, call it a "tentative ship date" where "tentative ship date means" (as always) "barring acts of nature, mechanical failure, or Texan lunatics."

Honestly, the real "ship date" is "as fast as a half dozen people in Tony's kitchen can box 'em and pack 'em. So . . . a couple of days barring breaks for sleeping and the occasional meal? I mean, I guess they could do without the sleep part, but then y'all'd have to pitch in a little extra for coffee (it's only fair, you know :) ).
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 26, 2012, 07:13:09 AM
Yeah, I guess a storm might blow in and shut everything down for a month, or the entire state might be nuked by Texas because their all "libruls" or maybe the USPS'll go bankrupt
You are rather predictable with giving these little lectures. The only thing I expected you to explain to me that I didn't get (yet) is the distance from Tony's to the nearest post office.

Quote
Of course, none of these have anything to do with "We will be packing the boxes and bringing them to the post office on [date redacted]." So, call it a "tentative ship date" where "tentative ship date means" (as always) "barring acts of nature, mechanical failure, or Texan lunatics."

Honestly, the real "ship date" is "as fast as a half dozen people in Tony's kitchen can box 'em and pack 'em
Sorry but the "real ship date" is EXACTLY what the post office stamps the box when they take it in. Which, it seems, you don't actually know.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Wirelizard on April 26, 2012, 07:51:13 AM
Random Factoid of possible interest: Every single ones of Xeno_RG's posts to LAF appears to be in this thread.

Nice of him to show up just to show up here just to defend Defibrillator Games, isn't it?

Popcorn, anyone?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 26, 2012, 08:41:23 AM
Random Factoid of possible interest: Every single ones of Xeno_RG's posts to LAF appears to be in this thread.

now youre just being rude-Xeno RG might be a Newbie to LAF,PMT,Dakka,Frothers,whatever but hes a long Time Member on other Forums,did you missed his how to paint Faces Thread on Forum XY  lol
though, im pretty sure hes very active on the DG Forum   8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 26, 2012, 09:37:46 AM
Same pattern here as everywhere Richard. You make an unsubstantiated claim to 'insider' knowledge, it's pointed out to you that you're mistaken. You respond with personal insults and snarky lectures about unconnected 'facts' whilst agreeing that you were in fact wrong initially and didn't know what you claimed to know.
Next you'll claim you were just trolling and we all fell for it.
It's tired.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: AKULA on April 26, 2012, 09:41:20 AM
Oh Paul, you are such a hater!

 lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 26, 2012, 10:29:25 AM
Next you'll claim you were just trolling and we all fell for it.
Is trolling permited on this forum ???
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 26, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
No it isn't.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 26, 2012, 11:12:39 AM
Figured it isn't. Which makes blatanly owning up to "yanking someone's chain" (or posting any other messages to similar effect) somewhat inadvisable of course.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: commissarmoody on April 26, 2012, 11:19:15 AM
No it isn't.
Dont Feed the Trolls
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on April 26, 2012, 01:11:38 PM
Don't Feed the Trolls.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: steders on April 26, 2012, 05:21:54 PM
Can we feed the cat?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 26, 2012, 05:43:41 PM
Yes, feed the cat.  Just not to the trolls.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: zizi666 on April 26, 2012, 06:31:31 PM
Yes, feed the cat.  Just not to the trolls.

 lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: YPU on April 26, 2012, 08:18:03 PM
Can we feed the cat?

I have to admit, I laughed out loud at this.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: answer_is_42 on April 26, 2012, 09:48:14 PM
What? 55 pages? Where did this come from?! What the devil is this?!  lol
Something about Plastic? What?!  o_o ???
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 26, 2012, 10:40:12 PM
Same pattern here as everywhere Richard. You make an unsubstantiated claim to 'insider' knowledge, it's pointed out to you that you're mistaken. You respond with personal insults and snarky lectures about unconnected 'facts' whilst agreeing that you were in fact wrong initially and didn't know what you claimed to know.
Next you'll claim you were just trolling and we all fell for it.
It's tired.

[citation needed]
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 26, 2012, 10:45:19 PM
Actually, since there's no point it keeping it a semi-secret, the ship date is today and tomorrow. They're packing the boxes right now.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 26, 2012, 11:02:24 PM
Sorry mate, but you are acting like a total dickhead.

Insult a guy and he doesn't act friendly. News at 11.



To specify, I'm referring the sideways insult in that first line up there are the top of the page. The rest of the post is just affectations. That, and I actually forgot about the bet (aside from the "I need to mail something to someone part). Color me mildly embarrassed.


By the way, who's in the running right now?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 26, 2012, 11:39:03 PM
You just dont get it Xeno. I am not insulting you. This is a very nice european forum much like an expensive porshe. One does not yell out of the windows of said car like a white van man. For that I would need a forum thats more like a ford feista. 

Riiiiiiight
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on April 26, 2012, 11:51:59 PM
Sounds like you need to go back to frothers then RG.....
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on April 27, 2012, 12:12:44 AM
Thank you Xeno!
Your contribution to this thread is great!
You rock!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on April 27, 2012, 12:26:11 AM
Is that my sarcasm alarm I hear?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 27, 2012, 12:27:10 AM
[citation needed]

Really?
Ok, here goes...

On 03 Apr 2012 3:42 p.m. Richard Gaulding wrote on TMP
Quote
They are now officially in stock:

On 04 Apr 2012 3:05 a.m. CPT Jake wrote on TMP
Quote
They are NOT in stock. They are in production at the factory and need to have the 'sprue' snipped, be shipped/transported to Defiance, and put into packaging before they are in stock. They are close, but they are not 'In Stock' except on the web store, where they have been 'in stock' for months.

On 04 Apr 2012 6:01 p.m. Richard Gaulding wrote on TMP
Quote
I guess, technically you're right. After all, they do have to drive them the whole HOUR from the factory to Defiance Games world headquarters (a.k.a. Tony's house), then box them, then drive them to the post office and ship them. So, at the time that video was shot, I guess you could say they were an hour from being in stock.

On 04 Apr 2012 7:16 p.m. Richard Gaulding wrote on TMP
Quote
it just amuses me at this point to poke certain people people and watch them try to get me riled up. It's a little like bear-baiting, except that bears thank they're the ones doing the bating.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=249945&page=8

You claim to know a 'fact'
You're told you're wrong.
You admit you were wrong and claim you were 'just' trolling.
I think that covers it.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 27, 2012, 12:50:09 AM
Really?
You claim to know a 'fact'
You're told you're wrong.
You admit you were wrong and claim you were 'just' trolling.
I think that covers it.

So, are you denying that the product exists despite there being an actually video of it being produced? Or that, if the product exists, it can actually be sold to customers? I mean, I suppose it could just be a collect mass hallucination, possibly involve smoke and mirrors.

Also, trolling:

The usage I normally see of the term involves deception. When I snark, I openly snark, so . . . no deception.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 27, 2012, 12:59:10 AM
I am not going to bother with you. All DG product is banned from my house because you sir are an ass. Happy now? End of story.

*shrug*

Honestly, the feeling is mutual. Ever since the whole thing started, the image I've gotten of the wargaming and modeling community has frankly left me disgusted. I've been accused of being liar, openly and ruthlessly insulted, actually had grown men (most of whom seem to be in their 50s) insulting my weight like a bunch of 12 year olds (I mean, seriously, guys, is this what you are?), and seen behavior that'd be shameful in an elementary school, much less in the real world. Much of this, thrillingly enough, has been done by people posting under their own professional identities. Luckily, it's been obvious from the start that it's just a handful of people in an echo chamber. Most of the people I've dealt with in this community have been nice people; the handful are just trolls.

Buy or don't buy, I don't really care. I'm fairly certain that 90% of the people involved in the wargaming community have no idea any of this is going on and don't give a shit one way or the other.

Still gonna send out that box, though.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Damien on April 27, 2012, 01:28:47 AM
Still gonna send out that box, though.

Okay I am a little confused, is Xeno actually Tony? Is he the 'evil' Chinese businessman trying to thwart Tony yet again? Is he Tony’s evil twin brother? How can he send out boxes? I have been following this thread for many moons and it has been fun but now it got a little bit strange; I feel that I have been left out of a joke. Can someone please explain this conundrum to the uninitiated?  :D

Thank you all
 Damien

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 27, 2012, 01:43:53 AM
Okay I am a little confused, is Xeno actually Tony? Is he the 'evil' Chinese businessman trying to thwart Tony yet again? Is he Tony’s evil twin brother? How can he send out boxes? I have been following this thread for many moons and it has been fun but now it got a little bit strange; I feel that I have been left out of a joke. Can someone please explain this conundrum to the uninitiated?  :D

Thank you all
 Damien



None of the above. I'm a guy named Richard who is a playtester for Defiance Games' ruleset. A while back I volunteered to be a sort of PR guy since there were a lot of places talking about DG product and no one actually responding. Since then, I've gotten sick of the whole thing. However, as part of the bet about the release date going on here, I've volunteered to toss one of the two boxes of Marines I preordered into the pool. Now Scurv has apparently decided I'm an ass because I mentioned the actual release ship date.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Damien on April 27, 2012, 01:49:28 AM
Oh, okay, nice to meet you Richard, enjoy your stay  :)


Cheers,
 Damien
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on April 27, 2012, 03:55:29 AM
I've watched this whole episode with mixed feelings.  Mostly it's just been entertainment, but I've actually come to the conclusion I would get a box or two of these.

But, the self appointed unofficial official PR man has really turned me off.   The constant shit stirring, flame baiting, and trolling is disgusting.

Please make sure your unofficial official boss realizes that your capacity as PR man is costing him sales, because I will not spend a dime on these products.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on April 27, 2012, 07:19:48 AM
Just keep the moobs off of here, OK?

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 27, 2012, 07:50:08 AM
So, are you denying that the product exists despite there being an actually video of it being produced? Or that, if the product exists, it can actually be sold to customers? I mean, I suppose it could just be a collect mass hallucination, possibly involve smoke and mirrors.

Also, trolling:

The usage I normally see of the term involves deception. When I snark, I openly snark, so . . . no deception.

No, I'm claiming you don't know what you're talking about and that you make things up. Since you've admitted it I think that's where we'll leave this.
As for trolling, you've done it before elsewhere and admitted it openly. Don't do it here.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 27, 2012, 07:54:32 AM
Honestly, the feeling is mutual. Ever since the whole thing started, the image I've gotten of the wargaming and modeling community has frankly left me disgusted
Indeed, it is largely mutual. some games seem to garner a supporter or two of your stature (and no, this is not a reference to your physique). Unfortunately, Alien Wars looks to be one of those - and the game is not even produced yet AFAIK (oh and please don't feel the need to embellish or bait if you want to correct me on that).

As for the release ship date, it is still the date that gets stamped on the boxes at the post office (or courier, whichever is being used). It is not the date on which Tony & al put sprues in boxes, or the boxes in the truck, or whatever, although it may be the same date obviously enough. So the actual date may or may not be 26th, 27th or 28th of April, Anno Domini 2012. But far be it from me to doubt that they can actually pull it off on one those and that Commander Vyper (IIRC) will be the lucky winner of our little "guess the DG Marine release date" competition - just as soon as the date gets checked by somebody else than a DG insider or a participant.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Steve F on April 27, 2012, 07:57:38 AM
This really isn't my place, but since the moderator is obviously happy to participate in this thread rather than lock it, I'm going to say it anyway.

Unfortunately, because there is a thread with this name, it is probably here that any meagre scraps of fact and informed opinion will be posted.  But I don't have the stomach to sift through it any more, so I will rely on Tabletop Gaming News, Tabletop fix, and Dwartist's blog in future.

I don't like what I know of Defiance Games' business practices, but I come to LAF to learn and enthuse about miniature wargames, not to wade through abuse.  I hope that no-one of like mind has been driven away from the Forum by encountering this uncharacteristic thread first.

[Note: this post has been edited by the moderator, no doubt with good reason and entirely within his prerogative.  It may, however, read oddly and disjointedly as a result, containing build-up without pay-off, and using conjunctions that are no longer appropriate.  Please accept my apologies for having written initially in a way which required such editing.  I have returned to the thread one last time to explain this, without reading any new posts, after noticing this on my "show own posts" page.]
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 27, 2012, 08:14:38 AM
While I can't get on the moral high ground with you (certainly not from this thread nor yet for my behaviour over ca. 20 or so years on the 'net), even with your lapse into backseat moderation instead of "pushing the report button" (taking it up with the site staff), nor yet do I share your deep concerns for the reputation of LAF, it might indeed be better this thread be closed once the competition resolves. It has certainly served it's purpose by then.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on April 27, 2012, 09:48:05 AM
A while back I volunteered to be a sort of PR guy since there were a lot of places talking about DG product and no one actually responding.
Richard, you should not quit your dayjob. And if you seriously wish to continue to be the PR-guy for DG, maybe this page might give you some good tips on how you should and shouldn't behave.
Link. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-tools/the-top-tens/ten-pr-tips-for-small-businesses-on-a-budget/article2021433/)

And if you had just read the first 3 tips, which is rather important, maybe you can create a new account and try all over?

By the way, I wasn't aware of you being obese, and I don't think anyone in this thread ever accused you of being either.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Galland on April 27, 2012, 09:54:51 AM
This really isn't my place, but since the moderator is obviously happy to participate in this thread rather than lock it, I'm going to say it anyway.

This thread is a disgrace to the LAF.  The place for page after page of foul-mouthed empty invective is Frothers'. 

Unfortunately, because there is a thread with this name, it is probably here that any meagre scraps of fact and informed opinion will be posted.  But I don't have the stomach to sift through it any more, so I will rely on Tabletop Gaming News, Tabletop fix, and Dwartist's blog in future.

I don't like what I know of Defiance Games' business practices, but I come to LAF to learn and enthuse about miniature wargames, not to wade through abuse.  I hope that no-one of like mind has been driven away from the Forum by encountering this uncharacteristic thread first.

This. This thread is just getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 27, 2012, 10:42:53 AM
Hot on the news - UAMC Marines are shipping!
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/uamc-now-shipping

The actual text says more @ "packing" but all the same, it can't be many days now... Hopefully they'll send dwartist's box out in the first wave 8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: CptJake on April 27, 2012, 11:28:55 AM
Hot on the news - UAMC Marines are shipping!
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/uamc-now-shipping

The actual text says more @ "packing" but all the same, it can't be many days now... Hopefully they'll send dwartist's box out in the first wave 8)

I'm pretty sure Dwartist can work his magic on the test sprues he has and do just fine.  Of course by 'fine' I mean way better than I could ever hope to paint!   :D
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 27, 2012, 11:41:06 AM
The point of him getting his preorder soon would be that he is the only person who has been suggested as a trusted arbitrator in the competition. I'll trust anybody who has been on the forum for longer than me obviously but then I don't have a stake in the game 8)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Dentatus on April 27, 2012, 01:11:29 PM
The offer of extra figs enticed me to pre-order a box from the Warstore. Once they arrive - whenever that may be - I'll post pix and my rx.

I'll leave the brushwork to dwartist.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aliensurfer on April 27, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
God bless the empire for cups of tea and page 3 girls.

Huzzah!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: answer_is_42 on April 27, 2012, 03:42:21 PM
This really isn't my place, but since the moderator is obviously happy to participate in this thread rather than lock it, I'm going to say it anyway.

This thread is a disgrace to the LAF.  The place for page after page of foul-mouthed empty invective is Frothers'. 

I still have almost no idea what any of this is about, but I feel the need to agree here. It's just not cricket, what?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: commissarmoody on April 28, 2012, 01:11:54 AM
I still have almost no idea what any of this is about, but I feel the need to agree here. It's just not cricket, what?
I also agree, this thread is a disgrace, and if should be locked. It started out as some thing informative, and then cheeky but, its becoming repugnant with folks putting much emotions into there responses. Lets move on.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Hrothgar on April 28, 2012, 02:03:34 AM
Yeah, this thread has unfortunately become a train wreck of the magnitude that drove me away (mostly) from TMP. Bad, BAD PR for Defiance Games too. Everybody loses. :(
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: AKULA on April 28, 2012, 09:50:41 AM
This thread is a disgrace to the LAF.  The place for page after page of foul-mouthed empty invective is Frothers'. 

Tbh Steve, if you feel that way, you could always just not read the thread in question? 

 ;)

If LAF members want to discuss Defiance or any other miniature company they should be allowed to - most of the issue appears to be with the Xeno guy (aka Richard G who is a self-appointed spokesperson for defiance) who only joined LAF to post on this thread - he has done the same elsewhere, on Frothers TMP etc etc.....

Locking the thread just achieves his aim of dampening down the negative publicity that defiance is getting because of the slow motion car crash that it's business model seems to represent.....

Personally I'd rather that that LAF'ers were aware of companies with "unusual" business practices.

Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 28, 2012, 11:34:31 AM
I've removed some posts. It is not acceptable to attack other forums here nor is it acceptable to post comments about other people. If you don't like what other people are saying attack their argument not them.

This thread has been moderated from the start in an effort to keep the discussion civil. Mostly it has been civil with a healthy dose of ridicule for Defiance Games.

People are at liberty to discuss hobby related subjects here. There are many, many hobby related subjects discussed on LAF that some find offensive or have an issue with and if all of these were removed because someone didn't like them then the forum would be emptier and poorer for it. If you don't like a subject feel free to let the moderator of that board know, your views will be considered and discussed and a decision will be made. But, bear in mind, that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it goes away.
As long as things are kept civil and the subject is relevant discussions tend to continue.

As everyone is aware, I'm sure, there are a number of threads on Defiance Games on several forums. They all say the same thing in their own way and they're commenting on the self evident fact that, six months on from announcing product, Defiance Games have yet to ship anything to anyone.

If you think that people complaining about this and occasionally losing their cool is more damaging to our hobby than the fact that this has happened in the first place then fine, everybody's got an opinion, others don't share it, that's life. If you don't like this thread don't read it, it's well sign posted and you won't get here by accident. Coming here for news of Defiance Games is a non starter, there is no news and hasn't been since the beginning. That's why this thread is so long, people still asking for 'news' and discussing the lack of it.

Instead of complaining about other forum members airing their views go and start your own thread about what you've made, painted, played, seen, liked, thought of or whatever. That's what makes the LAF a better place to visit on the internet than elsewhere. Positive action trumps negative whining every time.

incidentally, whilst I was typing this I received some Defiance marines in the post :)
Opinions that you are free to disagree with will follow later...
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on April 28, 2012, 12:22:07 PM
Considering they were apparently only packing them yesterday.....
Tony has a...time machine? lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 28, 2012, 12:23:42 PM
I didn't get them from Tony.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Andrew May on April 28, 2012, 01:31:04 PM
Phew!
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 28, 2012, 03:35:50 PM
A review of the defiance Games marines:
http://www.matakishi.com/dgmarines.htm
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Bloodsbane on April 28, 2012, 05:57:02 PM
Thanks for the review, Matakishi. I've got a more positive impression of the miniatures after the proper closeups, but I'm still far from okay with supporting this company after their atrocious PR and customer relations.

Still, I'm looking forward to see what they'll look like once people start tinkering with headswaps etc.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 28, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
I purposefully left out any of my views on the company itself.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: DoctorPete on April 28, 2012, 06:54:59 PM
Well, after seeing the heads close up, I would have to replace them.  The helmeted heads are useless; the others only slightly better.  After some thought, I won't be buying any of these.  Even with low cost they just don't seem to be worth the extra work needed to make them a good figure.  Perhaps their Germans and bugs will be better.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: aecurtis on April 28, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
A review of the defiance Games marines:
http://www.matakishi.com/dgmarines.htm

...which includes the immortal line:

"The irony is of course that I don't actually want any."

An opinion shared by many, I suspect.  With a large bin of the old Warzone plastics boiught for pennies from Prince August some years ago out in the garage, should insanity strike and I feel the urge to get into Sci-Fi, I think I'm well prepared.  And those Warzone plastics look much better to me than these.

Allen
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 28, 2012, 07:22:03 PM
Having both to compare I would say that they share the same problems for me, uninteresting design, but the Warzone troops are quicker to get on to the table as they're essentially single piece castings. The Defiance miniatures are crisper though.

I'd avoid both of them and make a nice little force from the old Alpha Forge metals available from Mega minis these days. In fact I have :)

edited to add photos of the Apha Forge chaps:

(http://www.matakishi.com/Green%20Team%20Squad%201%20600.jpg)

(http://www.matakishi.com/Green%20Team%20Squad%202%20600.jpg)

(http://www.matakishi.com/Green%20Team%20Command%20600.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: supervike on April 29, 2012, 04:46:18 AM
I always was fond of that Alpha Forge stuff!! 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: ZuluPaul on April 29, 2012, 11:31:46 AM
Thanks for the review. Seeing the frames seals the fact I won't buy them. The heads are very poor. Disappointed in this company, but I will at least look at future releases (but no bugs for me).
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 30, 2012, 05:53:44 AM
So, since the boxes have now actually really truly factually shipped (not that I've see any or heard of anyone non-connected yet who has received his but I've no reason to doubt a pic taken at a retailer by Xeno_RG), can we now start to resolve the competition? Anybody who didn't put anything up as prize got some yet and - most importantly - what's the posting date? Dwartist?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 30, 2012, 06:32:12 AM
Wasn't me that took that picture. It was posted on the DG Facebook page. I'm still waiting for mine to come in the mail.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 30, 2012, 07:53:07 AM
Well, yes, your exact wording at TMP (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=249945&page=10) is
Quote
Marine boxes at Hobby Bunker, taken with the blurry camera commented on so many times
So, I'd say you just might want to work on your presentation skill a bit more. Certainly it would would save you some time from having to go from forum to forum to correct me. Which of course in and of itself is not only fair enough but actually beneficial.

Regardless of who took the pic, I accept it's genuine evidence for UAMC having actually shipped. Now all we need is the ship date and the competition is resolved.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Xeno_RG on April 30, 2012, 11:00:20 AM
Well, yes, your exact wording at TMP (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=249945&page=10) isSo, I'd say you just might want to work on your presentation skill a bit more.

Reaching much?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 30, 2012, 11:32:21 AM
Not very much. You didn't specify the source of the photo so I assumed it was one of yours. To avoid such occurences in the future, it's easy to say outright where the pix are from.

ETA: having received a PM from Xeno_RG on the subject and in the interest of not cluttering this or indeed any other thread any further with off-topic discussion, I shall cease refering to or answering any post made by Xeno_RG on any forum until further notice. I think it's better for both of us in the short run.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: dwartist on April 30, 2012, 01:02:09 PM
I haven't checked this thread for a while - but as I'm apparently deciding on 'winning date' should it be the day they arrive or the date on the postmark?
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: tnjrp on April 30, 2012, 01:28:41 PM
The postmark date would be the one. At least as I recall, it was supposed to be the shipping date that's decisive.
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on April 30, 2012, 03:33:44 PM
Just FYI my order # is in the 50s and I have not received any kind of notification that my box has shipped.  When I updated my address it showed up on their site as changed but I didn't get any notification that it had changed on my order.  I changed the address several weeks ago well before the shipping day. (if any even have shipped at this point)
I would assume that this company is shipping according to order number.  I would hope so since I payed them way back in November 2011.  I've not received any communication from them to my registered e-mail address since the day I ordered them.  Only FB page updates and what they have posted on their site.  
Despite their claim that they are shipping I have my doubts.  
 
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: joroas on April 30, 2012, 03:38:42 PM
Quote
I would hope so since I payed them way back in November 2012

I know this thread is long, but did I skip a year?  lol
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: Ironworker on April 30, 2012, 03:41:32 PM
I know this thread is long, but did I skip a year?  lol

typo
Title: Re: Defiance Games USMC Marines!
Post by: matakishi on April 30, 2012, 04:00:00 PM
That's all folks!