Dragon Rampant!

[Hobgoblin]

That depends on how you want your mass battles to play. There's no facing in LR, no flanks, rear, etc. Usually in mass battle games there's an element of trying to get these things. There's also no rules for multiple combat, so you would not be able to orchestrate that kind of thing either. It is more warband style in my eyes.

That's all true. I think, though, that the abstraction of LR/DR combat (i.e. its reduction to "clashes") is preferable to the Warhammer style in which five or ten or twenty men wheel and otherwise move in strict formation.

I think in fantasy games in particular, a looser approach to combat (think "hordes"!) can work quite well. And while there are no rules for multiple combat, the effect can be created by having a unit to the rear of a retreating one, or ready to charge into the flank of a battered one.

As a comparison, Hordes of the Things has plenty of focus on the importance of flanking and the like. It's usually played with fewer figures per side than LR/DR (around 36, as I recall - I may be wrong!). While I remember enjoying it (it's been a while!), I certainly prefer LR/DR. And I'm not convinced that seeing an LR unit as 120 men rather than 12 makes the game any worse.

A thought experiment: could you play a good simulation of the Battle of the Five Armies from The Hobbit with DR (counting one man as lots)? I think you could.

On the orcish side, you'd have the bodyguard of Bolg ("huge goblins with scimitars of steel" = foot men-at-arms, 6 points),  two units of wolves and wolfriders (mounted yeomen, for 8 points), three units of smaller orcs (serfs, for 3 points), a unit of larger orcs (foot yeomen with mixed weapons, for 5 points, and a unit of bats (bidowers, perhaps, for 2 points).

Then on the other side, you'd have Beorn (foot men-at-arms in one for 6 points), Dain's dwarves (expert foot sergeants for 5 points), Thranduil's Elves (expert archers, 5 points), the Men of Dale (foot sergeants for 4 points) and Thorin's company (fierce foot at full strength but with just a handful models for 4 points; the "fierce foot" designation is to simulate their small number but heroic ferocity).

Would that give you a decent battle that might play out something like the book? I think it might.

Of course, this all accords with what you say about how you want your battles to play out!

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Dear Hobgoblin,

I like your lists for battle of the Five Armies - I will try that.

Dear Nord

If you go onto the Lion Rampant Forum, here is a thread which discusses flank and rear attacks.

http://duxrampant.yuku.com/topic/6/Flank-and-rear-attacks#.VbsZZGf7670

Regards

Mick

[Hobgoblin]

Dear Hobgoblin,

I like your lists for battle of the Five Armies - I will try that.

Thanks, Mick. I think a couple of refinements would be that Beorn shouldn't arrive until a 6 is rolled on a dice at the end of a turn, or until the sixth turn - whichever happens first; and that Thorin and company should be within the mountain until the "good" player decides to open the gates, at which point the unit enters the table and the wild-charge rule applies.

It might make sense to add some extra units to each side too, for a bigger game.

Dear Nord

If you go onto the Lion Rampant Forum, here is a thread which discusses flank and rear attacks.

http://duxrampant.yuku.com/topic/6/Flank-and-rear-attacks#.VbsZZGf7670

Regards

Mick

That's an interesting link - thanks!

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

"It might make sense to add some extra units to each side too, for a bigger game. "

No problem, I have about 550 official GW LOTR figures painted

[danmer]

As all units are tracked with Strength Points, really there for Reduced and Single Model Units, there's no reason why you reverse the theory and play games with very large units (tracking their 6 or 12 SPs as you play). Maybe you'd want to increase ranges and movement, but other than that, the rules will work fine.

[Hobgoblin]

As all units are tracked with Strength Points, really there for Reduced and Single Model Units, there's no reason why you reverse the theory and play games with very large units (tracking their 6 or 12 SPs as you play). Maybe you'd want to increase ranges and movement, but other than that, the rules will work fine.

Hi Dan. Are courage tests affected by depleted strength points or only by figures removed? We've been playing the latter (which makes trolls and ogres and things more powerful - we've given each player a limited number of such units), but I can see it would be equally valid the other way: bashed and bruised trolls might be less eager for a fight even if none of them are actually dead.

[Schrumpfkopf]

This is a set of rules that I am really looking forward too. :--)

[Manchu]

Here's the real cover ...

http://merseybooks.blogspot.com/2015/08/pssst-wanna-see-real-dragon-rampant.html

[danmer]

Hi Dan. Are courage tests affected by depleted strength points or only by figures removed? We've been playing the latter (which makes trolls and ogres and things more powerful - we've given each player a limited number of such units), but I can see it would be equally valid the other way: bashed and bruised trolls might be less eager for a fight even if none of them are actually dead.

Strength Points. You know me and simplicity, I'd get myself confused if I wrote anything too complex. Theoretically, there's no real need to remove models so long as you track SPs... But where's the fun in that?