The Range is Hot! Please see page 13 for quick straw poll.

[DeltaBravo]

Carlos - funny you should mention Ugandans & Tanzanians, I'm scoping out and collating uniform references for a range of Ugandans that I'm hoping to commission  (But alas, for now, my OPFOR is IDF)

The need for a complete-ish range from the start is a good one and that's where the £££ comes in.  From the costings I'm looking at, the mould making part isn't too bad, it's that initial up front cost of getting the platoons together for release.  I'm looking at 1980s IDF and Ugandans, and I reckon as a minimum I'll need 40 unique sculpts to cover them and that's without support above LMGs/RPGs.  

I'm very conscious that the numbers of people wanting to game Entebbe are going to be low, so even if I double that up with modifications to bring both sides up to current era IDF and African Union standard, it's going to be a long payback.  And then if, say, Spectre, release similar troops to the Ugandans, the economics go haywire...

I can't make the maths add up for a Kickstarter, the fees seriously erode the profit and I can't see how you can get a decent sculptor on board if you van't give accurate timelines and commitments to them.  It's a marketing tool for established companies IMO.

[DeltaBravo]

Others bewilder me... a pack of four guys with LMGs, when few platoons have more than three, stuff like that which leaves you buying fifty figures when you only actually need forty.

Empress Brits spring to mind - try building a current Orbat without having loads of figures left over...

Making squad packs is more expensive though, but I guess you just look at everything in the round and say it doesn't matter that the LMG guys won't earn their money back as long as the AK47 guys do. 

[Arrigo]

Empress Brits spring to mind - try building a current Orbat without having loads of figures left over...

Making squad packs is more expensive though, but I guess you just look at everything in the round and say it doesn't matter that the LMG guys won't earn their money back as long as the AK47 guys do. 

Do not worrry, they will be useful for the next modification in the ToE.

One of the problem with modern brits is that the ToE is evolving (charitable explanation, less charitable... they do not know what the hell are doing... plus there is the tendency to cater to people that wants more poses...

an additional problem is the flimsy nature of the market, today we are clamouring for the Eastern Mugabian Light Infantry, tomorrow we want the South Arseolian Mechanized brigade in summer uniform with caps... then how you define a range complete?

Nowadays I tend to think in squad elements, other people in platoons, other people I am sure want a full company with attached battalion weapons. Other just want a pack with their favorite characters... I love empress, I like the chaps, but in their kickstarts people were asking for mortars (81mm) and no SMAWs... even following vox populi can be tricky.


 

The need for a complete-ish range from the start is a good one and that's where the £££ comes in.  From the costings I'm looking at, the mould making part isn't too bad, it's that initial up front cost of getting the platoons together for release.  I'm looking at 1980s IDF and Ugandans, and I reckon as a minimum I'll need 40 unique sculpts to cover them and that's without support above LMGs/RPGs. 

I'm very conscious that the numbers of people wanting to game Entebbe are going to be low, so even if I double that up with modifications to bring both sides up to current era IDF and African Union standard, it's going to be a long payback.  And then if, say, Spectre, release similar troops to the Ugandans, the economics go haywire...

I can't make the maths add up for a Kickstarter, the fees seriously erode the profit and I can't see how you can get a decent sculptor on board if you van't give accurate timelines and commitments to them.  It's a marketing tool for established companies IMO.

Plus how you will work with the Stretches? There was an  interesting article on Battles Magazine on wargaming logistics (costs and stuff you put in the box) by Phil Sabin. I was once tasked to design and expansion for World at War covering China vs Vietnam, and my original design plan has to face the log part "I can give you only this amount of counters and you have to use existing maps" from the publisher.

I think planning a new range is a nightmare...



Arlequin cars and miniatures are different!   

[arget8]

This thread is becoming exactly what I had hoped it would be . A sounding board for what the modern wargaming community. While I would still like to hear opinions on what ranges are most desired, I am liking the opinions being put out here. I want to make a range that people will be happy with buying. I have spent a lot of my life working in small business so I know that the key is to give the people what they want to an extent. I will be creating a range that will, essentially, be chosen by the community. However, I will also be producing a range that will have everything you need for platoon level skirmish gaming. Things like mortars or tripod mounted MG's, and other battalion level assets may never even happen as they almost never appear on a battlefield alongside the infantry. However, things like SMAW's, Carl Gustav's, and any other platoon level assets will most certainly be included.

I also share your frustration with how minis are packaged. While I feel that sometimes it is an honest, yet inconvenient method of packaging minis, other times, such as when a company will package battalion level assets (That would not even be present on a skirmish battlefield) with a squad level weapon (in every single squad), it feels like a cheap deception. Forcing you to buy 3-5 extra packs (up to $60 or so) for a single guy from each to round out your platoon is, in my opinion, disingenuous. If a particular mini will not sell enough to be worth producing it without lumping it in with an absolutely essential weapon, then you shouldn't be producing it. 28mm modern gamers, from what I can tell, don't use tripod mounted machine guns or medium mortars on the table top. The range is just to small. In all honesty, if medium machine guns (m240b/gpmg) were not such an integral part of many platoons, I would hesitate to even include them, as the likelihood that they would be seen on a battlefield as small as we play on is very small.

That is why I will be doing my best to produce and package minis in the most useful fashion. Weapons that are brought to the battlefield will be produced, weapons that stay at the FOB will be a potential expansion.

[AzSteven]

Hi Steven! Nice to see a fellow trencher around here.

Gaming minis take up less space than Joes.  Until you get to a certain volume... 

[Arlequín]

Arlequin cars and miniatures are different!   

I've owned cars that cost less than a platoon of 28mm figures. 

[Arrigo]

I've owned cars that cost less than a platoon of 28mm figures. 

accounting for inflation?  But yes I agree... one of the reason I downsized to squads was cost.

[carlos marighela]

Empress Brits spring to mind - try building a current Orbat without having loads of figures left over...

Making squad packs is more expensive though, but I guess you just look at everything in the round and say it doesn't matter that the LMG guys won't earn their money back as long as the AK47 guys do. 

Or worse, putting two types of rifle that aren't fielded together in units into the same pack, a la the Empress Modern Chinese. 25% wastage straight off the bat. Never did get an explanation as to why they did that.

[Arlequín]

accounting for inflation?  But yes I agree... one of the reason I downsized to squads was cost.

Sadly yes, accounting for inflation. 

Strangely I have paid 'over the average' for particularly good figures and thinking about it, the actual 'cost' would be the same if I had cheaper figures, but with a handful of figures left over.

It's that handful of figures left over sat there that makes the red mist come... not what I actually spent. 

[Wyrmalla]

Or worse, putting two types of rifle that aren't fielded together in units into the same pack, a la the Empress Modern Chinese. 25% wastage straight off the bat. Never did get an explanation as to why they did that.

I have a feeling that Empress just stick in a variety of stuff into the packs and have players sift through it to make what they want. They could sell you four of the same service rifle in a set, or three of the same plus another weapon as they are currently. Yes it may mean that you have one guy left over you don't have an immediate use for, but I suppose from their perspective its better marketing than sticking the random weapons in their own sets.

Personally I use most of Empress' soldiers for informal forces so I'm not too bothered if the odd guy's not carrying something standard, in fact its preferable. I guess if you're wanting to make a by the books army then it may be an issue, having to buy an additional set for every four or five, of course (which hey is more money for Empress). ...Though its hardly like non-standard gear doesn't slip into even professional armies.

[ichwillauch]

Sorry for my poor english, I would like to see miniatures for a cold weather enviroment (nation doesn't matter), to game something like the fourth war, Ice Station Zebra, the Thing or a fictional North Scandinavian border clash.

[Elk101]

Sorry for my poor english, I would like to see miniatures for a cold weather enviroment (nation doesn't matter), to game something like the fourth war, Ice Station Zebra, the Thing or a fictional North Scandinavian border clash.

Have a look at the snow troopers on the Four A Miniatures website,  they might be of use?:

http://www.fouraminiatures.com/page2.htm

You might have to copy and paste the link.

[Col.Stone]

Sorry for my poor english, I would like to see miniatures for a cold weather enviroment (nation doesn't matter), to game something like the fourth war, Ice Station Zebra, the Thing or a fictional North Scandinavian border clash.

Once upon a time there was a ice station zebra-range, regiment games i think it was that had it.

[Wyrmalla]

Those Snow Troopers are perhaps a bit too sci-fi for moderns (given the laser rifles). Didn't Copplestone Castings to some with AKs at some point? I think that those are still available. I remember seeing some other ones at a show, but can't remember the manufacturer. =/

Though on this subject, and well perhaps its a bit too niche, Eastern European soldiers in Gorka suits would be interesting. Yes though, those are something you'd only see once the line was large enough or someone wanted to make Eastern European militias or what not. I suppose whilst we're in that area of the world, those Russian Spetnaz soldiers with the ballistic faceplates and AS Val rifles are something you don't see. Saying that I do think you can buy the faceplates loose, and couldn't probably get away with just giving them AKs (I just sculpted mine, but that doesn't really go for everyone).

[Elk101]

True, the pulse rifle style weapon certainly isn't Cold War! They're nice figures though and a near future Thing would be very doable. I thought about using them for an Aliens Vs Predator 1 style game.